Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney, although I play one in my own mind...

The boutique has probably copied someone else's design and possibly made some modifications. Is this or other boutiques manufacturing it without liscenses?  If so, it's a pretty good assumption that the originator is not concerned about licensing.

I think the biggest concern would be labeling it with the same or similar company name, effect name, and/or using similar artwork. Sounds like you wouldn't do any of that anyway.

Hey Ekamal, can you make one for me too 

For this hobby don't expect it to work out to very much $$$ per hour. Unless you work really fast. I'd shoot for 100$ or so depending on the complexity of the circuit and wiring, the rarity of parts and the detail in finishing.

Quote from: Pyr0 on July 03, 2012, 05:47:48 AM
Hey Ekamal, can you make one for me too 

Doh! 

Quote from: Colonel Angus on July 03, 2012, 08:37:41 AM
For this hobby don't expect it to work out to very much $$$ per hour. Unless you work really fast. I'd shoot for 100$ or so depending on the complexity of the circuit and wiring, the rarity of parts and the detail in finishing.

Thanks Colonel Angus, not really looking at big $, just looking for a fair labour rate. So are you saying $100 just for labour?

I think if a pedal costs over 100$-150$ retail then I would expect very high quality or something rare/custom/unique about it. Realistically you will probably only be able to get 3-4 dollars an hour to be able to charge a price that is palatable, again this is based on an assumption of an average rate of speed. If you could throw together a working Ludwig Phase II in 5 or 6 hours, it might be a different story. Or if your pedal is something like this :

which you could make in 5 minutes... charging 150$ for it... well, then we are back to the ethics arena

IMHO and my 2 cents...

If you can find whatever it is that you are building (even if it is not customized as you are saying) on eBay, craigslist, etc. for a certain amount.... that is about what you will get! 

Example...

If you are building a Phase 90 with depth mod, script/block mod, etc. then it may take you XXX amount of hours and materials which adds up... in your mind... to $75

The same non-modded Phase 90 is available on eBay for $35 shipped. (hypothetical)

Guess what.... you can expect to be offered $35 

In this day and age of the internets, that is how it goes however, like the Colonel said, if you are making something that is rare or more in-depth or collectable, you may be rewarded 

At least that is what I have experienced! 

1) Do NOT call it or label it with the name of the original.  Much of what pedal-makers do not appreciate is a product of questionable reliability, or unspecified parts substitutions, besmirching the reputation of their product.  So feel free to tell the friend that it is a clone of X or Y underneath, but whatever you put on the chassis in the way of graphics should clearly differentiate it.  So keep the names distinct and have fun with it.  For example, I have a Ross clone that I coyly labelled "Trey Chic" (a pun on Trey Anastasio, who uses one and popularized them as a result, and the French expression très chic, meaning "very fashionable").  My Big Muff Pi is a Fuzzy Little Tart.

2) If you are relying on someone else's layout, credit them openly.

3) You will likely make less than minimum wage for your efforts, unless your friend is the sort that leaves 25% tips to servers.  That should not be a deterent to you making one, but will certainly be a deterent to you making enough to have an economic impact on the maker of the original.

4) http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=98104.0

+1

Not trying to be pessimistic, but here's an example:

Parts = $40
Time = 5 hrs
You sell it for $100
Net Profit = $60
Your hourly rate = $60/5 = $12/hr

Oh, don't forget you probably have to have a state tax ID and charge tax. Here in TX it's 8.25%. So take $8.25 off of the sale price and you gross $91.75 and net $51.75. Your hourly rate is now $10.35/hr.  I don't know about you, but my time is worth a whole lot more than that.

Almost forgot Uncle Sam and state income tax. Take another $15% off the top for them.

Plan for occasional returns and replacements too.

If you're doing this as a hobby and doing one here and there, don't sweat it.  If you go into business and you're selling them on the web, you'll need to do all the things that businesses are expected to do.

Edit: 5 hours might be low depending on what you're building. Also, if you're selling on eBay, don't forget charges for them and PayPal.

You make more than 10$ and hour 

Quotethrow together a working Ludwig Phase II in 5 or 6 hours, it might be a different story.

Crap!! I must be REALLY slow. Thank God I wasn`t punching the clock on that one.

Seriously, I`ve only ever built two pedals for other people, both close family friends. No labeling or markings on the enclosure (other than for the controls), and I only charged exactly what the parts cost. First off, I wanted to do it for them, and secondly, it get spazzy sometimes when money enters the equation, especially where family and friends are concerned.

So, use your head.

I`m going back to work on my Ludwig..... AGAIN!!! 

Quote from: Mark Hammer on July 03, 2012, 11:08:36 AM
1) Do NOT call it or label it with the name of the original.  Much of what pedal-makers do not appreciate is a product of questionable reliability, or unspecified parts substitutions, besmirching the reputation of their product.  So feel free to tell the friend that it is a clone of X or Y underneath, but whatever you put on the chassis in the way of graphics should clearly differentiate it.  So keep the names distinct and have fun with it.  For example, I have a Ross clone that I coyly labelled "Trey Chic" (a pun on Trey Anastasio, who uses one and popularized them as a result, and the French expression très chic, meaning "very fashionable").  My Big Muff Pi is a Fuzzy Little Tart.

2) If you are relying on someone else's layout, credit them openly.

Excellent advice from Mark!! Those are often the crux of much of the moral dilemma that DIYers have in this situation.

My 2 cents for ekamal:

You are not producing that pedal and putting it on the market, you are building a pedal for someone who asked you to build it for them. This may be the only other of this pedal that you build, in which case, it's hardly going to impact the maker of the pedal you cloned. There is very little in effects pedals which is completely original, so I wouldn't bother asking the original maker. As others have stated, the pedal you cloned is very likely little more than a modified clone of yet some other pedal.

Here is an example. The MXR Distortion Plus and DOD OD250 are basically the same circuit, with the difference being the values of a few of the components. Neither company is suing the other. Same thing with the Vox and Cry Baby wah pedals. *

Build the pedal for your friend, but don't sell yourself short on your cost for parts or labor. Remember, you are doing a custom build at the request of a customer.




* This begs the question - at which point can you put a circuit in a box with your own brand and name on it and market it as your own?

Quote from: Electron Tornado on July 03, 2012, 01:06:56 PM
* This begs the question - at which point can you put a circuit in a box with your own brand and name on it and market it as your own?

At the point your conscience lets you.

What if you do it un-consciencely  ?

Quote from: Mark Hammer on July 03, 2012, 11:08:36 AM...
2) If you are relying on someone else's layout, credit them openly.
...

Agreed! I know of at least one bootweeker popular with the P&W crowd who has used layouts from tonepad, GGG, and madbean without giving proper credit to the layout designers. Said bootweeker even uses a rog circuit, again, without crediting rog for the circuit design.

Quote from: Colonel Angus on July 03, 2012, 01:58:28 PM
What if you do it un-consciencely  ?

That would be unconscionable...

I know you copied me and its ok  ( obvouse sarcasm intended) This is a great thread! Some great advice too. I build things here and there for friends and I am just honest with them. I tell them everywhere i found ideas schematics layouts whatever. I charge what I feel is right for me. The bottom line is, what we do is hard and has a big learning curve. Not a lot of guys want to do it, so charge whatever you feel is appropriate. If they want to diy, help em out. I send a lot of people to this forum. I try not to copy to much, but circuites being what they are, its hard not to see similarity in a lot of them. I build with tubes a lot and the voltage amplifier is so basic how could it not be a clone of something right? Either way, congrats on building things so cool other people want them. you sound like a good dude and i am sure you will do the right thing.

+1...

now go build some amazing boot bling...and be proud!!!...

Quote from: ubersam on July 03, 2012, 03:17:20 PMI know of at least one bootweeker popular with the P&W crowd who has used layouts from tonepad, GGG, and madbean without giving proper credit to the layout designers. Said bootweeker even uses a rog circuit, again, without crediting rog for the circuit design.

When a P&W'er steps on one of his pedals, Jesus sheds a tear. 

whats a p&w'er ? sorry, im kinda slow..