Why Your PT2399 Based Delay Sound Bad......Fake PT2399???

[fuzzymuff]

First of all hello as this is my first post.

I've recently purchased some PT2399 from eBay.  The seller's description was for 20 PTC PT2399 for $8.95 shipped.  It arrived, and the markings were "DTC" PT2399.  I informed the seller and even submitted some photos.  The seller was also quite surprised and checked all of his PT2399 inventory to discover that all were "DTC" branded.  He offered a refund.  

Some mentioned that it maybe a factory rebranded item.  So I emailed Princeton Technology with some photos of the "DTC" PT2399 I got from eBay.

Well, Princeton Technology replied and confirmed that the PT2399 in question were in fact "COUNTERFEITS"....FAKES!!  

So, if your PT2399 delay pedals sounds off, then perhaps you got a fake PT2399 chip.  So those motor boating puttering noise could be an indicator of having a fake PT2399.

Email from Princeton Technology:

Thanks for your information. Princeton only put "PTC" marking on our chips and we knew there are many fake products from China. Should you interested in any of our products, please contact our official agent.


Best Regards,

Cheryl Kuo/ 郭素梅
Senior Customer Service Specialist/ 資深專員
Princeton Technology Corp./ 普誠科技股份有限公司
Tel: +886-2-2916-2151 ext. 22437
Fax: +886-2-2917-4598
http://www.princeton.com.tw

[Ronan]

Do the chips work OK?

See this thread: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=99707.0

I was recently wondering if the Chinese are actually producing chips like LM13700, from possibly old equipment purchased from overseas, I really have no idea if that is even possible. If they can copy a PT2399, then what else can be copied, assuming that the guy from Princeton was telling the truth, and he is in the business, he would know better than someone like me, just an end consumer.

Edit: I just noticed in the last pic you posted, the IC on the right has thinner pins and they appear to have a rough sort of tinned solder finish to them. The suspect LM13700's I bought had pins with a similar rough tinned finish and they are weaker than pins on most other IC's I have bought, that is, they bend easier, although they are still within the specifications on the datasheet when measured with vernier calipers, its like the pins are made of a different type of material.

[timd]

Do the chips work OK?

This is what I thought too. They might still have been working chips. I was working with a chip branded "CD" 2399 and it worked just fine.

[fuzzymuff]

Do the chips work OK?

See this thread: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=99707.0

I was recently wondering if the Chinese are actually producing chips like LM13700, from possibly old equipment purchased from overseas, I really have no idea if that is even possible. If they can copy a PT2399, then what else can be copied, assuming that the guy from Princeton was telling the truth, and he is in the business, he would know better than someone like me, just an end consumer.

Edit: I just noticed in the last pic you posted, the IC on the right has thinner pins and they appear to have a rough sort of tinned solder finish to them. The suspect LM13700's I bought had pins with a similar rough tinned finish and they are weaker than pins on most other IC's I have bought, that is, they bend easier, although they are still within the specifications on the datasheet when measured with vernier calipers, its like the pins are made of a different type of material.

That's what puzzles me.  I've tested each of the "DTC" PT2399 and they sound very close if not identical to the PTC PT2399.  Even the voltage readings were the same.  These are pretty good fakes IMHO.  Some believe that these were misslabled PTC chips during fabrication.  DTC was a miss print and these chips were rejected as seconds.  But why would PTC say these are fakes if that were the case?  Also, notice structual differences.  For example, the photo showing the row of pins.  So I'm confused here.

[pickdropper]

Those look like they were made in different molds.  I assume the indentations on the bottom of the chip are the knockout pins.  They are clearly done differently in the DTC chips.

[pickdropper]

Those look like they were made in different molds.  I assume the indentations on the bottom of the chip are the knockout pins.  They are clearly done differently in the DTC chips.

[Canucker]

Do the chips work OK?

See this thread: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=99707.0

I was recently wondering if the Chinese are actually producing chips like LM13700, from possibly old equipment purchased from overseas, I really have no idea if that is even possible. If they can copy a PT2399, then what else can be copied, assuming that the guy from Princeton was telling the truth, and he is in the business, he would know better than someone like me, just an end consumer.

Edit: I just noticed in the last pic you posted, the IC on the right has thinner pins and they appear to have a rough sort of tinned solder finish to them. The suspect LM13700's I bought had pins with a similar rough tinned finish and they are weaker than pins on most other IC's I have bought, that is, they bend easier, although they are still within the specifications on the datasheet when measured with vernier calipers, its like the pins are made of a different type of material.

That's what puzzles me.  I've tested each of the "DTC" PT2399 and they sound very close if not identical to the PTC PT2399.  Even the voltage readings were the same.  These are pretty good fakes IMHO.  Some believe that these were misslabled PTC chips during fabrication.  DTC was a miss print and these chips were rejected as seconds.  But why would PTC say these are fakes if that were the case?  Also, notice structual differences.  For example, the photo showing the row of pins.  So I'm confused here.

If something in a factory gets labeled "seconds" most workers won't read the details of the description and just move it off to the side for the next shift to deal with... so even if they test fine but are mislabeled its an easy quick answer to give "we didn't make that"....rather then be questioned on any possible defects....just wash your hands of it and go about your business...not saying thats the case here but it is an easy out. Thats my thoughts on it based on having worked in a factory. People are to busy dealing with the regular tasks and don't want extra headaches that will prevent them from making they're quota.

[Ronan]

Its pretty obvious that there's 2 different chips from 2 different production lines, check the pics.

[fuzzo]

you gonna laugh but I just received  10 of this DTC chips  

(evil)ebay !

Is it "nooelec" the ebay seller you bought form ?

[fuzzymuff]

you gonna laugh but I just received  10 of this DTC chips  

(evil)ebay !

Is it "nooelec" the ebay seller you bought form ?

Yes, same seller.  I got 20 of them for $8.95 all DTC.

[Renegadrian]

Always bought them from tayda, no problems at all!