Warning about Tayda Copper clad

[alparent]

I ordered a bunch of copper clad from Tayda.
The site says FR4 but they actually are FR2.
And they are quite brittle when drilling.

I have a couple of boards to etch for some guys, thank God
I have enough FR4 to do them 'cause the clad from Tayda
Is not up to my standard. Will probably be OK for me. But not for stuff
I do for others.

I did email them about it. Waiting for a response.

[armdnrdy]

I've used the copper clad board that Tayda offers quite a bit and have experienced no difference in drilling, cutting, soldering, or de-soldering.

I used to use MG Chemical board that I would purchase at a local supply house, but Tayda's price is by far more economical.

What makes you believe that it's FR2?

[pinkjimiphoton]

in my experience, tayda will bend over backwards to make it right. please keep us posted!!

[alparent]

What makes you believe that it's FR2?

FR4 is Fiberglas board.
FR2 is phenolic board.

Right?

[Pyr0]

Yeah the Tayda boards are phenolic , but I actually find them easier to cut and drill.

[armdnrdy]

Okay...I tested some cut scrap that I had left on my work bench where I operate my dremel drill press.

Snap test results........drum roll........

When the older board is snapped, it shows fibers. (fiberglass for the logically impaired)

When I snap the Tayda board, no fibers. ( By golly..I think you're on to something!)

The Tayda board IS more brittle.

Still, for the price, and since I'm not building anything that requires structural integrity, (ie: A boat) I think I'll stick with this board.

[alparent]

I'm not saying they are not good. For me personal use I think they are more then adequate. And a lot gentler on bits.
But when I do boards for other people I prefer FR4.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Tayda ..... I love them!
I'm just expecting them to clarify the description on the website.
FR2 is not FR4!

Hopefully they would be able to stock actual FR4.

[chromesphere]

 I have been expressing my dismay with the Tayda board for some time now.  Maybe im just a nub, but i have never heard of FR4 and 2 before so thanks for the explanation.

Went to transfer the toner image onto their board with an iron.  The copper lifted off the board.  3 attempts later, i had a (dodgy looking) transfer.  I went to cut it with a hacksaw.  of the 12+ pcb's i had planned to etch/drill, 2 of them survived.  Maybe im just used to FR4....

Tayda have great customer service though. They gave me a full refund no questions asked!

So yeah, FR4 is definitely for me.  Im not sure how you guys can use FR2.  Its like trying to etch on a potato chip.

Edit: You obviously cant use an iron transfer or hacksaw

Paul

[Pyr0]

I've never had problems with the Tayda boards, or any other FR2 boards. I've only ever had the occasional trace lift from connections to a board mounted pot that was physically stressed a bit.

If the copper is lifting off the board you might be applying too much heat, or maybe you did get a bad batch - it happens, and Tayda are great for giving credits if anything goes wrong.

As for cutting, I find with phenolic boards I can just score on both sides with a blade and them snap them apart, then just sand the edges with a bit of rough grit sandpaper to size.

FR2 is also a lot easier to drill, much less wear on drill bits compared to fiberglass based board, also a lot less dust generated when drilling.

I tend to etch in batches, then build at a later date, here's some boards I'm working on, some finished, some etched but waiting to be drilled and some waiting to be etched, all Tayda boards and no problems what so ever.

[thelonious]

If you've got a dremel, its cutting wheel works like a charm for slicing up FR4 (I haven't tried it on FR2). I prefer it over scoring and breaking, but the downside is that you must wear gloves and a mask.

Edit:
Forgot to mention that I bought my FR4 in bulk from ebay seller abcfab, and I had a good experience with them so far. Just make sure you check the board thickness, as they sell different kinds of board. I bought .060 for general through-hole stuff, although probably what you'd want to get would vary based on your application.

[J0K3RX]

I get all mine from abcfab. He will sell to you outside of ebay using paypal also. He has yellow, blue, black, semi-transparent and all kinds of stuff.. Fiberglass and even the .030 thin stuff is great, you can bend it in a complete circle and it won't snap and drills very easily.

[Jdansti]

I've used Tada boards and not had a problem. I've actually been cutting mine with a miter saw that has a carbide blade on it similar to this:



It gives me beautiful clean square edges.

[darron]

[Mustachio]

I recently picked up some black single sided copper clad from a place on eBay. Real good price too. It's FR4 but thin its .030 really it etched well and cut really easy no problems. I think it was around 9 bucks for 9 sheets 4x6 .030 1oz I believe. I didn't think it was FR4 at first because I had never used any so thin that was FR4. I've mainly only used MG chems pre-sensitized boards, which where much thicker.

But you guys really should try using some large snips. I have some big old snips that weigh about 15lbs haha. It cuts through any pcb material like paper. And the best part no dust. PCB material smells real bad when cutting it with friction and its probably bad for ya. I do file my edges lightly after I drill but not enough to make any dust or smell. Give em a try you might save yourself a lot of hassle.

[alparent]

Just orderd REAL FR4 from abcfab. Bill as really good prices. Got the .047 stuff.
I use a bandsaw with a metal cutting blade. Works like a charm. Then I make thing nice and square on a disk sander. (Lots a tools + great wife = happy Man = ME!)

Tayda now removed the FR4 for the clad description (but now they don't say what it is!) I told them they should tell people this is FR2. Not that FR2 is bad......but I like to know what I'm buying. Don't you?

Any great source for pre-sensetized clad?

[lonewolf]

my experience with tayda was; If you complain about long shipping time or junk quality switches or anything else mechanical, the solution for them is to block you from buying the crappy products they sell..same thing with thaishine

[Mustachio]

Nice alparent thats the same place I got my black pcb from. Good prices and shipping was fast good stuff overall!

I still gotta say try some snips guys I think its better for your health.

As for pre-sensitized boards I always bought mine from mouser or digikey. I've seen some a lil cheaper on ebay from china but I havent tried em.

I wanna try some of that flexible pcb material that's literally paper thin! looks neat.

I've never had a problem with tayda or thaishine. Sorry to hear you guys did.

I would suggest the abcfab on ebay they have a few diff colors of pcb material black/blue/red good prices too.

[alparent]

I've never had problems with the Tayda boards, or any other FR2 boards. I've only ever had the occasional trace lift from connections to a board mounted pot that was physically stressed a bit.

If the copper is lifting off the board you might be applying too much heat, or maybe you did get a bad batch - it happens, and Tayda are great for giving credits if anything goes wrong.

As for cutting, I find with phenolic boards I can just score on both sides with a blade and them snap them apart, then just sand the edges with a bit of rough grit sandpaper to size.

FR2 is also a lot easier to drill, much less wear on drill bits compared to fiberglass based board, also a lot less dust generated when drilling.

I tend to etch in batches, then build at a later date, here's some boards I'm working on, some finished, some etched but waiting to be drilled and some waiting to be etched, all Tayda boards and no problems what so ever.

Lets have a look at the other side of those boards. That's where the chipping happens on mine.

[PRR]

The PCB Laminate FAQ

Cost Analysis of Printed Circuit Board

Basic board materials
Alternative board materials

Materialbezeichnungen:
FR1 = Phenolharz + Papier (billige Sorte)
FR2 = Phenolharz + Papier (Standard-Qualität)
FR3 = Epoxidharz + Papier
FR4 = Epoxidharz + Glasfasergewebe
FR5 = Epoxidharz + Glasfasergewebe (wärmebeständiger)

Phenolharz is phenolic, a brown which is hard but not strong.
Papier is of course paper.
Epoxidharz is epoxy, stronger than phenolic. Often greenish (maybe clear but looks green on glass).
Glasfasergewebe is glass fiber.
wärmebeständiger is heat-resisting.

All the classic pedals would be FR1 if they could get it, else FR2. Yes it takes extra care, you can't be rough with saw or iron.

I just bought some FR5 for modifying a HIGH-power system which could burn the house down.

[J0K3RX]

Nice alparent thats the same place I got my black pcb from. Good prices and shipping was fast good stuff overall!

I still gotta say try some snips guys I think its better for your health.

As for pre-sensitized boards I always bought mine from mouser or digikey. I've seen some a lil cheaper on ebay from china but I havent tried em.

I wanna try some of that flexible pcb material that's literally paper thin! looks neat.

I've never had a problem with tayda or thaishine. Sorry to hear you guys did.

I would suggest the abcfab on ebay they have a few diff colors of pcb material black/blue/red good prices too.

I use regular scissors to cut mine and I buy the flexible thin stuff like you mentioned. Cuts like paper too and easy to drill but don't be fooled, super strong! I wet sand the edges, no dust... I actually bought it by accident, got it and thought wtf  but then I really liked it  If I want that peanut brittle sh!t I will go to radio shack and pay way too much for 1 board last time I ordered from abcfab I clicked the submit button and before the page refreshed there was a guy knockin on my door with a stack of boards, literally that fast