Gated Fuzz Sound With New Built Fuzz Face with Charge Pump

[fuzzymuff]

Just buit the Pump'd Fuzz Face, but I'm having problems.  When the pedal is turn on, it gives a terrible gated fuzz effect.  I would have to attack the strings hard to get a fuzz effect and it would abruptly cut out, as if I had a noise gate.  Also, the 20K trimpot dose not change the voltage past 240.9 mv when it is turn all the way clock wise.  I can't bias the Q2 collector to the recommended 4.5-4.8v.  I've replaced the 20K trimpot and no change.  I've double check the wiring diagramed with the Pump'd Fuzz Face documents, http://www.guitarpcb.com/PDF%20Files/PUFF_v2.pdf  I'm assuming the wiring is a PNP configuration eventhough it uses a charge pump?

Here are some pics and my voltage readings.  Also, I notice in th wiring diagram/layout there was no illustration for hooking up a 9v battery, is this pedal strictly for power supplies?

Voltage Readings:
Power source = 9.45v

Q2:
C=238.7 mv
B=.420 v
E=234.8mv

Q1:
C=.421v
B=99.6mv
E=0.00

IC1 (Charge Pump)
Boost=9.45v
CAP(+)=4.88
GND=0.00
CAP (-) = -4.55
V+ =9.45
OSC=7.55
LV=5.34
V OUT= -9.40

[brett]

Hi
without looking at the detail...
The supply to the FF is -9.4V, but it's not biasing correctly. Assuming those voltages are -ve with respect to ground, the base of Q1 is only about 1/3 of what's needed to turn it on (300 mV).
Have a look within the FF for a problem.
cheers

[fuzzymuff]

Hey brett,

Thanks for you tip.  Someone at GuitarPCB solved the problem for me.  I've stupidly put 470K instead of 470R and that solved the problem.  This particular fuzz face built has a charge pump so that I can daisy chain it with other NPN pedals, though this fuzz face is a PNP.  That explains the -9.4v, the charge pump takes a positive 9v from the power supply and converts it to a -9.4v.  This is one good way to be able to daisy chain a PNP pedal along with NPN pedals in the pedalboard.

[pinkjimiphoton]

yah, i have a pumped tonebender i pimped for barry. nice project.

the only thing, is watch the temp with them germ trannys. they get cold? they'll sound like you describe. a real pia!!

[fuzzymuff]

Never knew that germanium transistors were so sensitive to temp changes.  That pump'd tonebender would be my next built.

BTW...thinking of adding one of the 3pdt buffered bypass boards for my next build.  Do you know if it the pedal remains buffered while the pedal is in bypass mode, like the boss pedals?

http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/3436241

[pinkjimiphoton]

best bet would be to ask barry. if it's a buffer board, with a germanium fuzz, make sure the buffer is AFTER the fuzz. not before it.

also, if you plan on using a couple of fuzzes together, don't buffer any of them, as the buffer will @#$% up your fuzz tone and interaction with the guitar. don't put anything buffered until AFTER your fuzz(es) unless true bypassed.. you can put several T/B fuzzes in line with no issues. but no buffers before them.

it may seem counter intuitive, but ya gotta keep the fuzzes first, then wahs, then distortions, overdrives or what have ya.
i wouldn't put a buffered bypass in any fuzz unless you're sure it will be the last fuzz in your rig. if you do put a buffer in, it may be better to put it before the switch, so it's still T/B when the fuzz is off.

this has been my experiences, anyways.

[kodiakklub]

jimmy, you have a schem for that pump'p tonebender? very interested.......thanks

[pinkjimiphoton]

http://guitarpcb.com

you have to register, but the entire project file is there, including schematic, layout and pcb. the pcb's from there are wicked affordable.

i can't ethically post barry's schematic, but i can tell ya where to get it from.

hey...did you ever finish the toneblaster? i've built three of 'em now, they all sound pretty much the same..

just curious. 

here's a couple links, but i believe you'll have to register and sign in to see them. i REALLY like that pedal a lot; but i like mine better.

http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/3051599

http://www.guitarpcb.com/PDF%20Files/PUTB_v2.pdf

i mean, for 8 bux, you can't go wrong... and barry always includes bonus stuff, boards, pots, all kindsa stuff .

[fuzzymuff]

best bet would be to ask barry. if it's a buffer board, with a germanium fuzz, make sure the buffer is AFTER the fuzz. not before it.

also, if you plan on using a couple of fuzzes together, don't buffer any of them, as the buffer will @#$% up your fuzz tone and interaction with the guitar. don't put anything buffered until AFTER your fuzz(es) unless true bypassed.. you can put several T/B fuzzes in line with no issues. but no buffers before them.

it may seem counter intuitive, but ya gotta keep the fuzzes first, then wahs, then distortions, overdrives or what have ya.
i wouldn't put a buffered bypass in any fuzz unless you're sure it will be the last fuzz in your rig. if you do put a buffer in, it may be better to put it before the switch, so it's still T/B when the fuzz is off.

this has been my experiences, anyways.

I know what you mean about putting other effects, specially wahs in front of the fuzz faces, but to me the wah sounds much more subtle and better infront of it, this goes for a vibe pedal as well. 

MXR has an updated fuzz face model, Fuzz 108 that has a switchable buffer to compensate the problems associated with the older fuzz faces. 

Check this thread out discussing about this buffer in the mxr fuzz 108...it was revealed the buffer was placed "in front" of the fuzz. 

http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2842

[pinkjimiphoton]

none of the buffers commercial or otherwise work as well as a simple series resistance to change the voltage to current.

i built every freekin' buffer touted to do the trick, and not a single one of them actually did what was claimed.

best bet? wire in a 50k pot as a variable resistor between the output of the wah board, and the connection to the switch the output of the wah would normally go to.

that way, (if the wah is true bypassed) it only comes into play while actually having the wah on. you can tweak it until they play nice.

if the wah is already buffered, adding another buffer for SURE ain't gonna help. you can trust me, or find out the hard way.

[fuzzymuff]

I hear you pinkjimphoton.  

The link I posted was interesting, but it didn't link correctly.  Have a look at here, http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2842  

Also, check this youtube out on the MXR fuzz 108 demoing the buffer function with a vintage wah and comparing with a vintage fuzz face.

[pinkjimiphoton]

I hear you pinkjimphoton. 

The link I posted was interesting, but it didn't link correctly.  Have a look at here, http://....org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2842 

Also, check this youtube out on the MXR fuzz 108 demoing the buffer function with a vintage wah and comparing with a vintage fuzz face.

someone asks, "where's the buffer?"

and the reply:

After the fuzz (as its designed to be used before the wah)?

but then it says the buffer is pre-fuzz. if the buffer is pre fuzz, there's no way it's gonna sound right. i've tried every buffer advised by every guru, and none of them work the way peeps claim.

fuzz always sounds best before wah. wah sounds great before overdrive or distortion, but wah first ruins the fuzz tone and guitar interaction. ymmv. i'm a fuzzaholic and have been for over 40 years. heard 'em all, played 'em all, owned a bunch back in the day, and have built over 100 of 'em since i got into this a couple years ago.

none of 'em work right with a wah or any other buffered pedal in front of them in the signal chain.

[fuzzymuff]

I guess it would just be on preference....

Did hendrix put the wah before or after the fuzz face?  I've always wondered about that.

[pinkjimiphoton]

hendrix used the wah first, but he was using the oscillation from the impedance mismatch to his advantage...he was PLAYING that shit!

some of the stuff where he's using the wah with the fuzz and octavia, and the wah is what he's using to keep time like a rhythm guitar..taking advantage of the fact
that the fuzz and wah kinda cancel each other out.

preference is definitely part of it.. i like the way a wah tickles dirt immensely.

for decades, you wouldn't get anything on my board to not be a wah first.

but i found i'm willing to sacrifice that for the interaction between the fuzzface and the guitar. i still get the same sounds out of the wah, i just turn the guitar down a little.
but i can get a real exagerated puking sound, too, with the guitar up all the way.

i run fuzzes, wah, distortion, overdrive... cuz to me, the wah sounds better before distortion and overdrive, and the fuzz just plain sounds like crap after it.

i don't like the fizzy-ass "fuzz" tone itself... i like the way it interacts with the guitar and amp. i rarely every have my guitar on "10".. all the tone is below there, at least the ones i'm looking for.

[kodiakklub]

just bought the pump'd bender board from barry. very stoked!