why doesn't anyone use this for tone control?

Started by pinkjimiphoton, March 02, 2013, 12:33:56 AM

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Mark Hammer

The principle reason for NOT using that particular tone control is that it sets the amount of bleed at a particular corner frequency, where others (SWTC included) will change the corner frequency where the trebleed occurs.  If you have nailed the place where you want the cut to happen, then it's a perfectly decent tone control.  But if you don't know, then it can be a crapshoot.  And for crapshoots, people tend to lean towards something where you can dial in where the cut happens.  I'm sure, with the number of gutars I've seenyou play, there must have been at least one where you went "Cripes, THAT's a stupid kind of treble cut for a bridge pickup!".

Which brings us to the issue of hanging it off the input lug or the wiper.  Hung off the input lug, the corner frequency is fixed.  HUng off the wiper, the tone and volume controls interact, such that the place where the treble cut begins will depend on the volume pot setting.  Or at least it will when the treble is fully cut.

Again, in your case, it would seem that you got lucky and nailed the optimal tone cap value and associated corner frequency, such that this arrangement works in your case.  If you know what you ought to be shooting for, OR if you simply get lucky, then it works.  If you want a control that attempts to anticipate a variety of situations, it might not.  What I was going for in originally recommending the SWTC arrangement (and it is NOT my idea at all; I just talked it up into more common use by giving it a catchy name and abbreviation) was something where the volume and tone controls would NOT interact, affording the player a little more flexibility to adapt to a variety of situations.  But like I say, if you have your "situation" pegged, other arrangement, like yours, have absolutely nothing unnatural or wrong about them.

But jeez, Dick Wagner, man.  I'm very jealous.

pinkjimiphoton

dude, don't be jealous. if ya were on facebook, i'd introduce ya to him. he's a trip.
i saw "welcome to my nightmare" back like...73 or so? i think? fuzzy memories... but never met the guy in the flesh yet.
but we've gotten to be pals on the internet, and are hoping to meet next time he's in massachussetts recording at longview farm studio,
or on tour...whichever comes first.
i built him another fuzz about a year ago, but he said it was "intermittent" when it arrived... i asked for him to send it back so i could fix it, but...
well, that ain't gonna happen. curiously, the other one is with a mutual friend in anchorage, and he loves it. go figure.

now...for the tone control... thanks for the explanation.
i was thinking it was kinda like the SWTC, and it kinda is...but yes, it's in a weird place. i tried putting it between the board and the volume control, and it just plain didn't work out. all i got was loss of signal and mud, and adjusting it didn't do anything. i stuck it off the wiper, and it seems to do the trick.
it doesn't seem to interact much with the volume!! i swear!!
but, this thing has sooooooo much output, it's pointless above maybe 11:00. so i guess i just got lucky.
tomorrow i will try to hang it off the input of the pot instead of the wiper, and see if it still works.
but right now, it's pretty much what i hoped for...it shaves off the earbleed and earwigs and chills the icepick in the forehead down nicely.
it doesn't affect the midrange at all... tho larger caps definitely did... the example of "bad guitar tone control" definitely came to mind when i tried more "normal" values.
this kinda shaves it off between probably whatever the upper limit was and about 2k or so i'd think (going by where it seems to stop, at least if compared to my old boss me5). the mids stay intact. i like that. but i'm weird. ;)

do you think it's working maybe cuz of the impedance? could that be why the other tone controls just plain didn't seem to work in this circuit maybe?
everything, i mean EVERYTHING with ME is a "happy accident". ;)

i know it should be loading down the output, but i'm not hearing it. i know my ears are spent, but i don't see it affecting the volume any more than the tone controls on my guitars do...yes, they cut down the highs, (and in some cases way too much) but the volume stays about the same.
not saying i'm right!! not at all!!

but it seems like a legit, easy fix...at least in this case. in the end, if it sounds good, that's the key.

i've only tried it thru my ruby.. i'll try it thru a REAL amp tomorrow, and see if it still seems to be ok.
thanks for the explanation, i actually understood it for a change..
namaste!   :icon_biggrin:
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