rock band without bass

[Paul Marossy]

if we are discussing guitar / bass hybrids then I think you should definitely check out charlie hunter and his 7 or 8 string novak guitars. the 8 string has 3 bass strings.

Yeah, Charlie Hunter is a mind boggling player. Been a fan since about the mid-90s.

Anyway, if it were me I would probably think about splitting the signal. One to my normal setup and the other one to a clean-ish setup thru an EH POG. I have an original one, and it will do earthshaking sub bass type stuff. Very cool pedal.

[Jdansti]

Get a girl called Kim to play bass.

Or Tal Wilkenfeld. 

[bluebunny]

C'mon Marc, let's go 6, b ut make 'em thick as tow-cables, none of that puny stitching wire ;P

Nah, 6 is just showing off!   

[wavley]

Get a girl called Kim to play bass.

Have I told you lately that I love you slacker?

Sebadoh and Sentridoh and Superchunk and I don't know
Doug and Lou and Calvin too and Kim and Kim and Kim and Kim --- Mary Lou Lord from "His indie world"

15 years ago I had a math/indie rock band that had a bass player with a ska background and he just threw too many notes at you in the wrong places and his brother (the drummer) and I would always yell at him "Play like a Kim #^$(*^%*$".  Later on he got stabbed in the hand trying to break up a fight, after that he played like a Kim and we named a song after him "The day Shawn found out he was a crime fighter and not a superhero".  Also, that band is the reason I have a rule against being in a band with siblings.

So the moral of the story is that you need a bass player named Kim or one named Shawn that has been stabbed in the hand.

[Canucker]

I haven't read every comment here but I'll just throw in the comment of get another bass player. You guys sound great the way you are....and take the words "home recordings" off of those recordings....if you don't think they sound quite as they should just call them "first version".

[carrejans]

Ok, an update on this.

We had a first rehearsel with a "prototype" guitar. 
I used an old electric guitar of mine. I added a hexaphonic pickup that I had laying around. I connected only the lower two strings to the extra output, that I routed via an EH POG to a bass amp. Another normal guitar pickup went to my guitar amp.

Conclusions:
- almost all of our songs are doable with this setup, with some arrangements; but I will have to practise a lot!
- some of the songs will sound better with only low E string to bass amp, some with only A string, some will need both
- it is really cool, and an extra challenge to sound good and rearrange songs (I like challenges ;-) )
- if we can pull this off and still sound great, this will add a kind of uniqueness to our band (and new possibilities to writing new songs (also limitations off course))
- the sound was really crappy. Reasons: crappy guitar, crappy guitar pickup, crappy hex pickup
- when I play my Gibson Les Paul Pro Deluxe, with P90's, through the POG and bass amp, the sound is amazing

Experiment phase 2:
1. I want to replace one of the P90's of my Les Paul, to a pickup with seperate outputs of lower E and A strings.
2. I will add an extra stereo jack output on my guitar.
3. I will make a breakout box. The extra stereo jack cable input will be split up; and with footswitches I can choose which string I want to be amplified, or both.

Problems/questions
1. The replacement pickup needs to have a great tone. Like I mentioned before, a few years ago I bought a hexaphonic pickup online, but the sound is terrible.
It needs to have equal quality to the original P90.
- I found another website that makes custom pickups: http://www.ubertar.com/hexaphonic/index.html
The sound samples are not that great to me. But it's difficult to judge on sound samples (what guitar is used, what amp, how did they records, ...)
- I have no experience in making pickups myself. I found a kit: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Pickups:_Kits/P-90_Pickup_Kits.html
Is it doable to wind pickups yourself? How should I do it, to have two outputs? Wound around the whole bobbin with two different wires? Wouldn't that become too big, because of the double length? What will the sound be?
==> I'm not sure what to do, but a good sound is crucial!!!

2. With the prototype guitar I just ducktaped the extra jack to my guitar. Any suggestions on how to make it a bit more sturdy and clean, without drilling into my guitar?


Thank you guys for all the support, suggestions, ... and bass player jokes off course. 

[carrejans]

For those interested, we just released our first EP.
You can download it for free: http://ambassadorsofnowhere.bandcamp.com
(we removed the words "home recordings", although they still are (recorded in a small appartment, except for the drums))

[Mark Hammer]

A simple way to get a tone more like what you want, but sensing only a few specific strings, is to simply get yourself a humbucker, and remove the slugs and adjustable screws from those strings you don't want it to sense.  I suspect there will be a small amount of bleed-through, but the target strings will be relatively isolated.

Keep in mind that a hexaphonic pickup will have the individual coils wound on a different diameter than a standard full-6-string coil, which will yield a diffferent inductance, among other things.  I woldimagine it is very difficult to produce a hexphonic pickup that sounds exactly like a standard 6-string wind.

Also note that string separation is best achieved when the pickup is closer to the bridge - the reason why guitar synths always have the divided pickup jammed between the bridge pickup and the bridge (and why some gutar synths use individual piezo saddles instead).

[Puguglybonehead]

As far as the split-off-center P-90, you could probably get something custom wound for a reasonable price.
Jerry Sentell does some interesting things.
http://sentellpickups.net/

[carrejans]

Thanks all.
I'm currently in contact with two persons, who make custom pickups.

The other problem I'm facing is the attachment of the extra output jack. I don't want to drill holes, and I don't just want to ductape it.
I was thinking that I should make/buy something in the likes of the Roland GK synth thing.
http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/westmusic/cabinet/bassfoldapart3/roland-gk3-2.jpg
Is it possible to buy only the plate that's attached to the strap button, you think? Untill now, I only found complete GK kits on the net.
Is there also some kind of plate at the back of the guitar? (why?)

[Perrow]

Stereo output Jack and custom cable?

[carrejans]

Stereo output Jack and custom cable?

In total I have 3 outputs (guitar pickup + E string for bass + A string for bass), so a stereo output jack is not enough.
So, I think I need to add the extra jack somewhere to my guitar. Just not sure yet, how to do this, without drilling.

By the way, I just ordered the custom pickup. I will keep you guys up to date.

[Thecomedian]

I have a pretty good lol about the pompous ripping on bass guitar. People can play an instrument however they want, to achieve the sound they want.

"people shouldnt play bass fast".
"people who play bass dont require much skill".
"people should only play rhythm with their bass".

etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCKU_pffkCg

http://youtu.be/vYIpC27v22o?t=1m10s

People always want to seem intelligent by being discerning and claiming only X or Y is possible with A.

[Jdansti]

Hopefully everyone understands the ribbing we give bass players. After all, they're almost as intelligent as drummers. 

[davidjnichols]

Hey man.  I play drums in a 2-person rock band.  We always get compliments on how full our sound is.  The guitar player often uses weird tunings, but nothing tuned too flat.  He uses a Holy Grail reverb pedal often, and rather than using a distortion pedal, he uses a compressor and line boost in series to grit the signal and retain a lot of low end.  We also usually play through two amps connected via Cannonball ABY pedal (a custom 35w Verellen  http://www.verellenamplifiers.com/  and a Peavy Classic 50).  It's amazing how full a bassless band can sound just with good guitar and drum tone.  I also like boomy, John Bonham sounding kick drums, which helps our sound.  Here's our last studio recording.  We didn't record bass on the album because we wanted it to sound true to live performances. 

http://xylophones.bandcamp.com/

[Thecomedian]

Hopefully everyone understands the ribbing we give bass players. After all, they're almost as intelligent as drummers.  

[Jdansti]

 

[carrejans]

Hi David, really nice music. Bookmarked it. ;-)

The custom pickup arrived; time to heat the solder iron.
But first I need to make the "stereo-to-mono-mixer"-pedal. I made a quick drawing. Will it work correctly like this?

[Jazznoise]

Local H anyone?

Flat Duo Jets

Sleater-Kinney

Candy Bars

The list goes on and on of great bands with no bass player that are still powerful, you just have to get creative.

Or you could just reallocate a bass player from one of the bands that has more than one like Hotel X or Dos

Sonic Youth did alot of Washing Machine with no bassist, but Slater-Kinney is a great example. Modest Mouse use baritone guitars alot.

What you'll find is missing is generaly the 40-80hz info if you're using big, full guitar tones. The good news is that this space can happily filled out with well tuned floor toms and kick drums, which many drummers seem to avoid in live settings because they're never heard.  The Velvet Underground are an example where the drum arrangement was crucial to what the band used - songs like Heroin are really compelling and have no bass guitar. I'm pretty sure no one even hits their low E string!