Hey! First Post w/ a Rat Question

[matttornado]

Hi Everyone.

I just built a Tonepad Rat & it sounds incredible. The problem I have is that when I turn it on with the settings I like, It's so loud compared to my sound with it turned off. I can't find a good balance. If I simply turn the rat's volume down, I no longer get the sound I want. I like the rat's volume to be at least at noon in order for to open up. I like my Rat settings like this: Volume: 12 - 1 o'clock, Filter: 3 o'clock & Distortion between 1 & 3 o'clock.

My signal is guitar, Rat - Marshall Plexi.

Are there any mods to the pedal I can do to get the sound of the Rat's volume at noon but not so loud? I hope my question is clear.

Thanks!

[Mark Hammer]

Your question is clear, but the circumstances are not.

Is the sound you want something that happens as a result of pushing your amp a certain way?  or is the requirement for the volume pot to be up halfway more to do with some sort of tone-change in the output of the pedal?

The sort of recommendation to make is a function of which of this is closer to the truth.

And welcome to the machne.    You're among friends.

[matttornado]

The pedals volume needing to be at least at noon is that It's a tone change in the pedals output. The pedal sounds choked if it isn't up at least 12 o'clock. Thanks for the reply!

My amp is cranked & is dirty without the pedal on. If I turn the amps volume down, no difference in pedal problem.

[Mark Hammer]

Thanks for the additional info.

In short, that should NOT happen.  When you say "a Tonepad rat" are you using one of Tonepad's boards, or did you make the board yourself?

Is the volume-pot-position requirement independent of what you might stick between the pedal and amp, or do you expect to always go directly from that pedal into that amp?

[matttornado]

 Tonepad PCB board I purchased form them.  I had the same problem with all 5 of the Proco Rats I owned throughout the years vintage big box & LED rats. I don't have them anymore so I built the clone.

No other pedal in between rat & amp. My E.H.Big Muffs are the way! lol

Thanks.

[Mark Hammer]

Maybe you need to have some sort of buffer stage between the Rat and amp, so that the volume pot is isolated from the amp, and doesn't load it down.  That may be the issue.

How long a cable are you using between pedal and amp?

[matttornado]

I have an 18 foot between rat & amp. Hmmmmm.....a buffer. I have an Ibanez AD9 with an Killer buffer. Should I try that between?

[matttornado]

I meant that my EH Big Muff does the same thing as all of the Rats.

[Mark Hammer]

I have an 18 foot between rat & amp. Hmmmmm.....a buffer. I have an Ibanez AD9 with an Killer buffer. Should I try that between?

Well, at least see if it makes a difference, for diagnostic purposes.

[matttornado]

Nope. The AD9 after had no effect on the Rat's output level. My situation is so frustrating because the circuit sounds amazing.

Now what?

[Scruffie]

I might be wrong... but it sounds like you might want a volume treble bleed cap to keep the highs as you turn it down... try a 1nF cap across lugs 3 & 2 of the volume pot.

[LucifersTrip]

I was actually going to suggest the same. It's not uncommon that that happens...

I've actually had the exact opposite problem and never spent the time to find a solution:

I build a pedal which sounds cool at 50% volume, but the bass increases with volume and sounds muddy. I want the 50% tone at 100%.
Sometimes a smaller volume pot helps.

Additionally, I've added that volume treble bleed cap, turned the volume down and it sounded better that at full volume. Now, I want that tone at 100%.

The one minor problem with those volume treble bleed caps is that the tone just keeps getting more trebly as you turn down more and more...and at 25% vol it's all treble.

[Mark Hammer]

This may be why one often sees pedals with the volume pot before an output buffer stage.

[matttornado]

Thanks. I'll try a cap accross the volume pot & report back ASAP.

Thanks!

[matttornado]

I tried the cap. Didn't solve my volume issue. Should I try a 50k volume pot instead of the 100k? I'm not sure where to tackle this issue.

With pedals like Tubescreamers & Boss Overdrives. I barely get any volume boost  wit hthe volume cranked &with the same amp settings (not enough headroom) but for some reason the Rats & big Muffs are so loud.

Any other advise?

[Mark Hammer]

If the pot is potentially loading down the amp's input, I'd say opting for a higher value pot, rather than lower, might be the wiser strategy.  Try 500k (log, of course), and see what happens.

[matttornado]

Cool! Thanks. I'll report back tomorrow.

[matttornado]

The 500K pot did not help much. Now what?  Is it a resistor change to lower the output current?

[Mark Hammer]

The treble bypass cap (i.e., compensated volume pot) is intended to compensate for treble loss at low volume settings, stemming from loading.  At higher volume-pot settings, loading is reduced, so less treble compensation is needed.  That's why the treble bypass cap doesn't seem to do anything useful at high volume settings.

Another approach....

I noted that some pedals stick a buffer stage between the volume pot and output, so why don't you?

Replace your volume pot with a 100k fixed resistor to ground.  This will emulate what your amp would normally see as your volume pot cranked up full.

Now, stick your volume pot after the filter and just ahead of the .022uf cap, so that attenuation is produced before the JFET buffer.  On the La Rata board, this would mean cutting the trace where the .0033uf and .022uf caps join.  You run a wire from pad where the .0033uf cap is soldered to the pot input, and another wire from the pot wiper to the .022uf cap.  The pot should already have a groud connection for the 3rd lug.

Hopefully, this does the trick.  We can't have you rocking out in substandard fashion.

[matttornado]

Thanks, Mark.  I'll have to give that a try. Sounds simple enough.