New here, is it considered unethical to copy or ask about current productions ?

[Tone-Analyst]

Hi everybody, I wanted to know before going on, like the title says if you guys mind talking about current production stuff. Like for example how to add a Tone and Wicker switch to my Big Muff 

[mremic01]

I think it's something of a judgement call. Something like a Timmy might be a bit iffy to post schems for out of respect to Paul Cochran, but mods to a Timmy are probably ok to discuss. Some circuits are ubiquitous. Almost every pedal manufacturer has one or something like it. Muffs are fine.

[Kipper4]

Welcome to the forum buddy. 

[musiclikscreams]

i sometimes also factor in how ethical the price of the pedal vs the cost of the pedal is. 

I don't have any problem spending less than $20 building a pedal with a 5 component circuit and sells for $170.

most pedals have somehow come from another pedal.  a majority of mass produced overdrives are just tube screamer clones.  gotta start somewhere.  i will be honest and say i have thought about cloning a timmy due to wait time... but i just haven't been able to bring myself to it due to ethics.

[nocentelli]

In terms of ethics, it's a bit complicated here: Most schematics seem fine to be discussed, linked to or even posted, but a few pedal makers (who i think have been personally involved in the forum in the past) had a personal assurance from Aron that their schematics would not be discussed, shared etc. Since then, Zvex seems to have had a change of heart, so who knows what the score actually is.

Electro Harmonix have nothing to fear from (real or imagined) risks of cloning of their products, and the BMP must be one of the best documented circuits in pedal land: Simply typing "tone wicker mod" into google yields several hits from here -

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=85623.0;wap2

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=97206.0;wap2

http://s620.photobucket.com/user/Guitarfreak5253/media/3PDT1.png.html

By tone switch, do you mean bypassing the tone stack? If so, you can simply add a switch to make/break one ground connection from the tonestack like this - http://www.muzique.com/lab/tbypass.htm - But i found the position of the tone pot still affects the sound a little.

To completely remove the tonestack, you can use a DPDT switch to physically bypass the whole tone circuit, which results in a massive volume (and hiss) boost that can be attenuated by switching in a resistor in place of the tonestack like this -

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8052/8103818436_315d0bf740.jpg

Here's an amazing website full of just about everything there is to know about the BMP - 

http://www.kitrae.net/music/music_big_muff.html

[Mark Hammer]

A lot of current or former members start out their own line of pedals.  It is considered a courtesy to let them at least make their rent for a year or two before people start poaching their ideas.

Personally, I don't feel it unethical to discuss the conceptual aspects of current pedals, if we are discussing the sorts of things one could easily deduce from using the pedal and tweaking the controls (the oh-I-see-what-he's-doing-there topics).  But I personally consider moving directly from a recently-posted proguitarshops Youtube to "here's-how-you-can-make-one" a little unfair.  We tend to forget that people often take out bank loans, forfeit relationships, and quit jobs to make their pedals.  We also tend to forget that the price they charge is intended to provide a roof over their heads, inventory, tools, website development costs, custom tooling or chassis finishing, health care, food, alimony...sometimes, gas, travel to trade shows, etc., and not just what you'd pay for the parts alone.  Even if the pedals are crap, I think they deserve a little breathing space.

[electrosonic]

I also differentiate between something I am going to use personally vs something I would consider selling.  I have made a Timmy type pedal for personal use, though I wouldn't feel right selling Timmy clones.

Andrew.

[GGBB]

A lot of current or former members start out their own line of pedals.  It is considered a courtesy to let them at least make their rent for a year or two before people start poaching their ideas.
...
But I personally consider moving directly from a recently-posted proguitarshops Youtube to "here's-how-you-can-make-one" a little unfair.  We tend to forget that people often take out bank loans, forfeit relationships, and quit jobs to make their pedals.  We also tend to forget that the price they charge is intended to provide a roof over their heads, inventory, tools, website development costs, custom tooling or chassis finishing, health care, food, alimony...sometimes, gas, travel to trade shows, etc., and not just what you'd pay for the parts alone.  Even if the pedals are crap, I think they deserve a little breathing space.

I guess I'm a little more lenient on this matter than you Mark.  Normally I am sympathetic to this, but when all this guy is doing is selling barely modified clones - and, let's face it, many many boutique builders are doing exactly this (King of Tone, Centaur, Pinnacle, a billion fuzz faces, ... - no offense guys!) - they are fair game for being cloned themselves.  What they are really selling is their quality and service anyway, at least if they want to survive.  Shouldn't there be a community buyer beware watchdog thing happening to alert the public to the fact that Joe Schmo Pedal Co's new $500 Ultra-Overdrive is in fact just a Tube Screamer clone with a mid-scoop control?  We talk a lot around here about giving credit where credit is due, and I totally agree with that, but how come we don't seem to hold our own community members accountable to that when they want to start their own business selling copies?

[Mark Hammer]

I'll tell you Gord, we've been through this topic too many times for me to get terribly interested in the debate again.  I'll simply say that:
a) pretty much everything is derivative of everything in some manner;
b) sometimes even little things take a LOT of trial and error to stumble onto, and the people who do the stumbling have actually invested more than you think;
c) most things cost less to make than they do to buy (even those puny resistors have to generate a profit for the companies that make them);
d) most ad copy for musical equipment is minimally informative, maximally bombastic, and is intended to simply get you very interested rather than provide indication of the underlying technology or what it borrows from;
e) there are an infinity of ways to distort sound, and too many people get too obsessed about either owning all of them, or mimicking something they've heard that's actually a result of MUCH more than a mere pedal;
f) too much emotion (especially resentment) seems to be invested in how money is the obstacle to me being able to produce sound/tone X, but it ought not to BE an obstacle because everything ought to be cheap or free.

In 1986-88, I belonged to a computer user group.  Initially, we all bought our own software, and chatted with each other about our experiences, providing recommendations and counter-recommendations for purchase.  As the number of software products on the market for that model of machine increased, however, an interesting thing happened.  Unable to commit to any particular product, or feel that word-processor X was likely to satisfy their future word-processing needs (and keep in mind that NONE of these products would ever tell you what they could NOT do), more and more members started "backing up" copies of things they had not purchased, and the group started "archiving" just about anything on the market.  The sheer glut of product on the market had led to people pirating left and right, simply because they did not know if they were ultimately going to be happy with this package or that, so if they weren't necessarily going to buy it, they didn't feel bad about copying it.  If you wanted everything, but couldn't afford everything, then you pirated.

me, I'm just trying to prevent guys with an idea - even bad ones -  from ending up bankrupt.  They may not serve the best grilled cheese sandwich, but they sunk money into the equipment to make that grilled cheese sandwich, and I'm not going to make an effort to put them out of business.

[R.G.]

It's considered at least polite to learn to solder a good joint before hyping a web site and starting to refer to one's self in the first person plural.

[bluebunny]

It's considered at least polite to learn to solder a good joint before hyping a web site and starting to refer to one's self in the first person plural.

We thoroughly agree.              (Well, someone had to be first!     Thanks for delivering such great feed lines, R.G.)

[bool]

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learn to solder a good joint
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don't bogart that joint...