Input booster - how to save the sound of the fuzz face after it?

[blackieNYC]

So I've heard my fuzz face with an op amp booster in front, and even with the gain at unity it sounds very squishy. This I expected and have read a few times. If driven hard, the synthyness might be useful but it mostly sounds like poo.  I would really like to have this booster at the head of the chain, functioning as a splitter in order to blend further downstream, with the option of a little gain.  I'm also getting good results with the other distortions. (A huge boost in front of an Uglyface is a must for sustain.) How can I get my FF sound back?  The AMZ pickup simulator?  Seems a few people have approached it with a FET buffer in front.
[i have had success with that pickup simulator with a Scrambler. I couldn't have it first in line so I put the sim infront.  But that's so I can fake rolling off the high end just like a gtr, to bring out the octave. To get the right input into a fuzz face, is a more delicate matter, with subtleties being so very important ]

[darron]

you're thinking on the right track with the pickup simulator / inductor - haven't tried it though.

for a "quick and dirty" maybe just try dialing series resistance with a large value pot? wouldn't work as well an inductor though.

if you're using an opamp in non-inverting mode then even at unity gain it will still work as a buffer, yeah



simple transistor boosts in front like you said work well too, sounds like a better approach.i'd go with that. i'd put a volume pot between the boost and the fuzz then. like you said, subtleties of input.

though, if you just want beefier fuzz, transistor boost AFTER fuzz works loads better for me. this is how the circuits like the tone bender do it.

[blackieNYC]

Thanks, the pickup sim sounds like it should work to preserve/"deceive" the fuzz face (maybe someone has tried it? Is it perfect? Almost?), but I get the impression that a transistor buffer or booster in front will throw off the FF. I was hoping to blend some distortions - if I have to move the FF to the front of the chain it would be a little inconvenient. I have other stuff I like up front, including a noise gate that is not true bypass.

[ashcat_lt]

I just had the stupidest idea for a pedal.  It's basically just a guitar pickup with V and T feeding a passive FX loop with a true bypass switching for the whole thing.  If you want to get fancy, use a humbucker and add a series/split/parallel switch.  Put your FF in the loop, dial in your desired response, and go!  It can also be used to make any active signal source sound (sort of) like it's coming from a guitar pickup.  Run a synth or an iPhone or whatever into it...  IDK why you'd want to do that, but some people...   

[anotherjim]

Crazy idea, please shoot it down...
...what if 2 cheap p/u's were in a box glued face to face. Would that make a coupling transformer with the character of a pickup?
I've also thought of doing that with 2 tape heads for a tape sim thing.

[blackieNYC]

Now it's getting silly!  No, I will not put a pickup inside a stompbox!   
Okay, maybe someday, cuz that sounds like fun.  But, this has helped.  Because I was thinking, you don't have to do the "stupidest idea" with a real pickup because the AMZ pickup sim will do that for you.  It seems to have incorporated all the essential pickup aspects in its design. The transformer is a match of the pickup inductance.  So my faith in the pickup sim being able to give me the sound of an FF straight off the guitar is, picking up.  Maybe it will work great. But I do have to order a transformer.
Surely someone has done this.  Does the pickup simulator allow you to have the "proper" fuzz face sound, or not quite, or not close?

[PRR]

> 2 cheap p/u's were in a box glued face to face. Would that make a coupling transformer

A really terrible transformer.

Just put one pickup in series with the input of the FF. This may pick-up hum too. Keep it away from all AC. Put it in an iron pipe.

I think some of the $3 midget transformers have coils which will do a similar thing with less trouble.

[ashcat_lt]

But I do have to order a transformer.

And I guess that's at least part of my point.  I have four or five pickups floating around here which will probably never end up in guitars.  Plus, it could probably be made to look kinda cool.

[induction]

Surely someone has done this.  Does the pickup simulator allow you to have the "proper" fuzz face sound, or not quite, or not close?

I've done it (cheap Radio Shack transformer), it works. I used it after a buffer, not a boost, but it should work either way. Does it sound any different than a series resistor? You'll have to decide for yourself. You can try the series resistor now, without waiting for your $2 transformer to show up.

What it won't do is give you the same sensitivity to the volume setting on your guitar. Read this for Gus's explanation of how the gain of Q1 on the Fuzz Face is controlled by the output impedance of the input signal. A signal with a constant output impedance followed by the pickup sim (or series resistor) won't see changes in your guitar volume knob as changes in input impedance, so the gain of Q1 will not be sensitive to it. It will still clean up some, but not as much as it does with a direct connection to the guitar. You can put a volume and tone knob on the pickup sim, but it will not be convenient to adjust while you are playing.

[blackieNYC]

Thanks.  So you think you can get as good a fuzz face sound as you would directly from the guitar? More or less? I'll try the pickup sim with the transformer.  I've done it for a scrambler - I didn't want to have to adjust tone to get the octave out of it, so I put the simulator with volume and tone before the scrambler. And a boost in front of that.  It works marvelously.  You can't get the sound of a rolled-off guitar with an RC filter. Never came close.  There's a peak, and a steeper rolloff.
That's for the sound of a guitar with the tone rolled back.  To keep my fuzz face true, I'm asking more accuracy of the pickup sim. Think I'll just give it a go.  (I want these pedals to stand on their own for purposes of blending, for which I prefer the tone and volume up.)
I understand about the volume knob benefits of the fuzz face being lost, I can part with that. I may give the pickup simulator its own I/O jacks, so I will still have access to the FF input.

[wavley]

I think the 10K $3 transformer that we use a lot around here (like RG's Hum Free ABY) is really great for the pickup sim circuit.  Google Jack Orman pickup simulator.  I have a switch on mine to go between the center tap and full, sounds really great.

[blackieNYC]

Cool - and do you happen to drive a fuzz face with it?  Does it sound the same as if the FF was straight off the gtr?

[Gus]

look for the 3 transistor fuzz in the schematic link at the top of the page

I used a BJT buffer to a 10K  series input with a switched  capacitor value to change the high pass filter between the buffer and FF like circuit.  It does not sound the same as a FF like circuit with the emitter follower buffer.
The resistor value depends on what gain you want with a 47K feedback/bias try a 10K with a 100K feedback bias maybe try a 22K etc.

Try a 4.7K to 22K series resistor to the FF after the opamp buffer and before the FF input and change the highpass filter with the series capacitor value for your amp, guitar, speakers used

[wavley]

Cool - and do you happen to drive a fuzz face with it?  Does it sound the same as if the FF was straight off the gtr?

I mean nothing sounds *exactly* like the guitar plugged straight in, but it's certainly close enough for rock and roll, if you use the version that does the volume and tone controls then you can use them for pregain tone shaping.  I set my tone values, but I mounted the volume of the pickup sim as an external control, honestly I should have wired the fuzz pot wide open and just mounted the pregain/sim volume in it's hole.