An alternate PnP resource

Mark Hammer · March 11, 2015, 11:16:40 AM

A place I sometimes order from in Niagara Falls has started carrying a resource for toner-transfer that appears to be something like glossy magazine paper, but optimized for etching purposes. It's certainly cheaper than PnP, but much easier to work with than photo paper, which is not always guaranteed to feed through easily on one's laser printer. Moreover, the fiber size on photo paper can often be large enough to yield "ragged" transfer; largely unsuitable for narrow traces or closely-spaced pads.

http://www.dipmicro.com/store/TRANSFER-PAPER-WHITE

I received some yesterday, and haven't used it yet. Unlike magazine paper, it is shiny on only ONE side, but it sure feels for all the world like a sheet of pristine glossy magazine paper.

I'm going to try and do a board tonight, and report back on how good a job it does when it comes to transferring toner withoout gaps.

Pettol · March 11, 2015, 01:57:03 PM

Interesting! Looking forward to a report.

Mark Hammer · March 11, 2015, 10:09:50 PM

Well, so far, I'm liking it. I ironed on a Rebote 3 mask, using this new stuff, and 4 others using photo paper. I haven't etched it yet, but the only reason for that is because, as clean, easy, and flawlessly as the Rebote pattern transferred, the photo paper patterns gave me grief and I'm still busy touching up those patterns with my waterproof pens (it's 5 patterns on one piece of copper board).

The sheets are very thin. In fact even thinnerthan my printer paper. That's a good thing because you can easily see how well the entire pattern has transferred while ironing. And for many of us, judging when it's "done" is one of the hardest parts of toner transfer.

I hadn't realized until this evening that the sheets are what I gather is "A4" size, rather than 8-1/2 x 11. That didn't pose any problem when it came to printing, but folks should know it is not going to line up with whatever else you have in your printer's paper feeder.

But so far, this looks like a decent budget-conscious alternative, where the sharpness of the transfer is more likely to stem from the quality of the copper-board surface than the resolution of the transfer medium. I think I'll be ordering up some more. If folks learn of any other sources for this stuff, let me know.

Pettol · March 12, 2015, 11:16:35 AM

Thanks for sharing!

A4? That should increase the chances of finding them in Europe.

arma61 · March 12, 2015, 01:47:31 PM

Hi

I've found these in Italy, looking and touching the paper feels like it is coated with wax/oil, it really seem greased!

http://www.ebay.it/itm/5-fogli-A5-trasferimento-a-caldo-ferro-stiro-circuiti-stampanti-senza-bromografo-/151568932300?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:IT:3160

Not bad, toner sticks good and comes off easily, I'm still calculating the ironing time, though it looks like no more than 2 mins.

2.20 euro for 5 sheets... not bad...

Cheers m8

Mark Hammer · March 12, 2015, 02:09:47 PM

Yes it does feel kind of waxy.

The thinness is good, though, and allows you to easily spot the areas where maybe you didn't iron long or hard enough.

I am guessing that the resolution/precision is not quite as good as Press-n-peel, simply because the particle size of even very thin paper will nearly always be larger than an acetate sheet. But it seems more than good enough for 85% of the layouts we do here, and is not that much more expensive than photo paper.

I understand may have had good success with glossy magazine pages, and this may not be all that different. Still, as I mentioned earlier, one of the big challenges is being able to see where the toner hasn't fully transferred before you pull the sheet off the board. And in that respect, seeing not-completely-transferred areas is MUCH easier with a solid white sheet than with a magazine page that has images on both sides.

Mark Hammer · March 13, 2015, 09:53:54 AM

Did my etch last night, and I wish the pattern for the photo paper came out half as good as what I got with the new stuff. I'm sold. If you can find this stuff somewhere convenient for you, at a reasonable price, try it out. Like I say, Press-n-Peel blue is still probably better for anything that requires the highest precision, but this is more than good enough for me.

bloxstompboxes · March 13, 2015, 01:53:54 PM

Mark, have you not tried HP Presentation paper? Or, if you have, how do these two compare with one another?

Govmnt_Lacky · March 13, 2015, 01:57:42 PM

What I like about PnP Blue is that it is simple. Copy design, iron on, peel off... DONE!

There is no constant picking at paper fibers like there is with magazine paper.

Is there residue scraping with the new stuff OR is it peel away and done like PnP?

Mark Hammer · March 13, 2015, 03:14:09 PM

1) Have not seen HP Presentation paper, so I haven't tried it.

2) The new stuff peeled off every bit as easily as PnP blue. The stuff I transferred on the same board with photo paper required considerable picking and touching up with a pen.

Brymus · March 13, 2015, 03:44:53 PM

A few years back when I was doing etching another forum member sent me blank magazine paper from his work,he cut it into sheets off the roll,and it works amazing! way better than photo paper or printed on magazine paper,so I will buy some of this new stuff when I ever run out,thanks for the info Mark.

Mark Hammer · March 13, 2015, 04:08:07 PM

Incidentally, I might add that some folks here, without their very own laser printer, have attempted to bring their inkjet printouts and blank PnP-blue sheets to a photocopy center (e.g., Kinko's) to turn into toner-transfer, and been rebuffed by sales staff who were concerned that the plastic sheets would melt in their machine.

I haven't put it to the test, but this stuff looks for all the world like paper, so my guess is that copy-center staff would likely say "Yeah sure, I can print that out".

italianguy63 · March 13, 2015, 04:14:22 PM

Quote from: Mark Hammer on March 13, 2015, 03:14:09 PM
1) Have not seen HP Presentation paper, so I haven't tried it.

I use the HP Presentation paper exclusively now. It is cheap, and sticks well.

I have not been able to "peel it away" while still hot. So, I throw the enclosure in a tub of water. Soak for a couple minutes... and probably 50% of the paper will peel right off. Then I soak a couple minutes more.. I "scrub" with my thumb, and probably 40% more come off... Finally, I use a "Scotchbrite" sponge (from the wife's kitchen) to hit the rest... you basically just scrub it lightly till the paper "haze" disappears, and the toner gets darker. Just a few minutes and done..

I've had great luck with it.

MC

bloxstompboxes · March 13, 2015, 07:21:22 PM

Quote from: italianguy63 on March 13, 2015, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: Mark Hammer on March 13, 2015, 03:14:09 PM
1) Have not seen HP Presentation paper, so I haven't tried it.

I use the HP Presentation paper exclusively now. It is cheap, and sticks well.

I have not been able to "peel it away" while still hot. So, I throw the enclosure in a tub of water. Soak for a couple minutes... and probably 50% of the paper will peel right off. Then I soak a couple minutes more.. I "scrub" with my thumb, and probably 40% more come off... Finally, I use a "Scotchbrite" sponge (from the wife's kitchen) to hit the rest... you basically just scrub it lightly till the paper "haze" disappears, and the toner gets darker. Just a few minutes and done..

I've had great luck with it.

MC

I have yet to etch an enclosure but I have had the same experience with etching boards. I use a toothbrush after my thumb fails to get all the paper out of the pad holes. Has worked very well for me. I am using a cheap scotch laminator that I modded for hotter temperature rather than an iron.

newperson · March 13, 2015, 09:50:18 PM

Does it shrink? This is an issue for larger 2 sized etches. Say if you printed the same image on 2 sheets do they line up 100%. Sometimes PNP blue will shrink just a bit and the layers will no longer match.

Some people have been using some yellow stuff that looks like the backing off stickers.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-A4-Sheets-Heat-Toner-Transfer-Paper-For-DIY-PCB-Electronic-Prototype-Mak-/400505239086?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3ff8f62e

Mine came so tightly rolled my printer would not pick it up in the feed very well. Some say you have to order 100 sheets for it to ship flat.

I would guess this other auction is the same yellow paper?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-yellow-PCB-thermal-transfer-paper-A4-SIZE-for-Circuit-board-DIY-4538-/291288941797?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d22c84e5

Mark Hammer · March 14, 2015, 03:39:47 PM

The same folks I got mine from also carry the same stuff in yellow for the same price: https://www.dipmicro.com/store/TRANSFER-PAPER-YELLOW

My order was shipped flat, and I only ordered 5 sheets to try it out.

newperson · March 14, 2015, 03:53:49 PM

Do you think it is the same as the ebay link? Or do you think the yellow is the same as you got? I would like to try something different but don't want to end up with more of the same. Blue PnP has worked the best overall for me so far, but I like trying different methods.

Mark Hammer · March 14, 2015, 05:28:10 PM

I can't see a difference between the two products other than the colour of the paper. Certainly the blurb they have posted about each is identical.
https://www.dipmicro.com/store/index.php?page=2&act=viewCat&catId=519 You can always contact them yourself and ask if the products are different. Next time I order some, I'll get some of each colour and let you know if they behave differently.

News:

An alternate PnP resource