Those doing more than the "hobbyist", what have you done to maximize workflow?

[GGBB]

I think it's probably been said a few times farther up, but definitely one of the keys is outsourcing as much of the work as possible so you can focus your discipline on the parts that only you can do. Your time is the most valuable resource you have, the limiting factor to the amount you can produce, so the more time you can save yourself, the more you can build and the more

Those things are all true, but what you can get away with outsourcing is dependent on your market. If part of what you are selling, and what your buyers are buying, is some kind of mojo/hand-made/hand-etched/hand-painted/made-in-USA/what-have-you kind of appeal, you won't be able to outsource that. John Lyons/Basic Audio comes to mind as an apparently successful boutique builder who couldn't outsource his PCBs. ZVEX is another who's appeal was partly hand-painted pedal art. Jon Patton (midwayfair) has that going for him too (although I don't think he's making his living selling pedals). Figure out what sells for you, and how to sell it, first - then figure out how to make it profitable, sustainable, lucrative. It could be pedal-art, mojo-vibe, local-appeal, or cheap-ish clones, only you can know. Don't assume that the key to your success is low cost and high volume. That's the crowded part of the market anyway and it's very hard to distinguish yourself in that space.

[R.G.]

I'm not saying anything is hard per se, I'm saying that many ignore or don't realize how much is actually involved. I fully promote going into business for one's self but we want to remove the naivety and educate if at all possible.

"Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult. The difficulties accumulate and end by producing a kind of friction that is inconceivable unless one has experienced war."

Karl von Clausewitz, "On War", Chapter 7, "Friction in War"

[Mac Walker]

Those things are all true, but what you can get away with outsourcing is dependent on your market. If part of what you are selling, and what your buyers are buying, is some kind of mojo/hand-made/hand-etched/hand-painted/made-in-USA/what-have-you kind of appeal, you won't be able to outsource that.

ZVEX is another who's appeal was partly hand-painted pedal art.

According to a Fretboard Journal article from a few years back, ZVEX pedals are manufactured in South Korea, at least as far as the electrical assembly is concerned.

[LightSoundGeometry]

I could build ten pedals a day ..the drilling and painting is the worst parts  other than sourcing parts ..and that I am going blind lol

my approach to pedal building is the same way I do my oil paintings, slow and meticulous step by step one at a time. I am a custom boutique craftsman in no rush for volume quality, love, pride and artistic value > mass produced

[MonarchMD]

Yikes. I'm in Iowa and I just filled out a one-page letter template that basically just said I'm starting an LLC, here's the name, and here's the address. The filing fee was $50.

It's that easy for me other than the fee being slightly higher. However, getting the LLC registered isn't the only step. In other words any other government entities that also need to be contacted, paid, setup for etc. don't magically get registered simply because the LLC  registered with the state. The LLC is just the shell entity for a company/assets. Now, if your city/county/zoning etc. allows you to run a manufacturing business out of your home with zero fees paperwork, you are in good shape. Let's not forget the federal side either.

I'm not saying anything is hard per se, I'm saying that many ignore or don't realize how much is actually involved. I fully promote going into business for one's self but we want to remove the naivety and educate if at all possible.

+1
I own an LLC in the Kansas City area (commercial printing and signage) and while the LLC was super easy and my overhead is extremely low, a lot can depend on your municipality. In a larger metropolitan area (especially one that shares a state line) there may be all kinda of zoning and licensing issues in one city that simply don't exist in others. For example, the city where I live doesn't require a business license for a home based business for a majority of industries, but the neighboring city requires a business license for any business run within the city limits. 

I build as a hobby and with my LLC I could easily setup another business within that LLC with a couple of forms with the state, so if I ever did sell and make anything, I'd be in good shape.

If you aren't looking to make a living at it, I wonder if you can build a pedal as a hobby, gig with it or even practice with it once and sell it as a used item. Would probably raise some red flags if it happened too much. My brain works weird, I know.

[alanp]

Eeek at the LLC licencing thing. Mum saw once how many damn courier parcels arrive for me (note: I haven't made a damn cent on this hobby, the odd dollar I do get goes right back on parts and PCBs) and suggested I make a company.

[italianguy63]

Bendeane--

The very issue I ran into was that I was moving so much merch. (in and out) via post and auction sites, that I just KNEW someone (the government) would figure I was making money at this-- and be on my tail for unclaimed income (taxes).

So, as of Jan. 1, 2015... I went legit and formed a company.  Not a big cost in legal and all-- maybe $1,000 total to get licenses, checks, business card, business software, etc. etc. etc...

Really-- it is more of a hassle to do all the bookwork, and "business" stuff-- just to prove you aren't getting rich at it.  But, at least I am legit now.

MC

[Ice-9]

^ +1 to that, book keeping and logistics are a total pain, also spending half a day replying to emails also means you lose half a days work usually with little gain, but it sure beats going to work for someone else in a 9-5 as far as I am concerned.

[italianguy63]

Well, I still work 9-5.. This is a hobby, which actually DOES make money, and I enjoy it... so, it is win-win-win.

Plus I get to play with cool stuff I create.

[GGBB]

According to a Fretboard Journal article from a few years back, ZVEX pedals are manufactured in South Korea, at least as far as the electrical assembly is concerned.

Could very well be true - I know they have a cheaper screen-printed Vexter series now. But originally and still now for some pedals at least they are hand-painted, which is part of their marketing appeal. If early on he had switched to screen printed boxes in order to lower costs and speed production, there's a strong chance his business wouldn't have bloomed like it has. But there's no way we can really know that. Consumers in general and I think the boutique pedal buyer especially are sensitive to cost-cutting product changes. So much so that you often hear things like "the original model was great, but they changed them and now they're crap" whether actually true or not. The buying public is suspicious of product changes, even when marketed as improvements, even when they really are improvements. Remember "New Coke?" My point was that if you become successful at selling a certain thing, and you change that thing (especially to cut costs), don't assume that the success will continue.

[garcho]

 'Jesus man! You don't look for acid! Acid finds you when *it* thinks you're ready.' - Hunter S. Thompson

Same applies to business ideas. Keep it a fantasy/hobby/underground until *it* finds you.

[karbomusic]

Same applies to business ideas. Keep it a fantasy/hobby/underground until *it* finds you.

Good luck with that because said entities now get to "guess and assume" how much you made when they do find you. It's similar to when someone gets caught selling a little bit of weed and they then confiscate all your music gear and sell it to pay taxes on 'sales' they assume you made since you were hiding anyway. I've seen it happen to others multiple times. It's obviously a scam but those who hold all the cards, always win the game.

I guess someone can go the Vegas route as sometimes you can just play dumb and naïve but it's financial and legal Russian roulette albeit there seems to never be a shortage of those willing to play.

[MonarchMD]

Just remember, sale takes place where product was delivered. My LLC is in Kansas and I'm not obligated to collect any taxes if I deliver by any means (including personally drive) my product to my client in Missouri. I don't have a business entity in Missouri and it's not my burden to collect tax for them. It's on the buyer to figure out use tax (that's right, all those online purchases you make that you don't pay sales tax on...you are required to pay the use tax as it applies in your state. Nobody ever does, but it's the law).

[Ice-9]

If you a real business you also need to factor in RoHs, CE, FCC and all the other shit that costs fortunes. Even soldering by hand with unleaded solder is a pain in the arse, even if it just the fact that I go through 10 times the amount of soldering tips in the same time and need an iron that is a lot hotter.

[GGBB]

Not sure what the laws are in the various united states, but here in Ontario, Canada, I can claim self employment income including expenses without having any sort of licensing or registration. Basically, you can run your own small business and file your earnings without any extra hassles. There are probably limits to how much you can claim without raising suspicion i.e. audit, but for the hobbyist pedal builder/seller this wouldn't be an issue. We're also not obliged to collect or submit any sales tax on sales under $20k (that was the value many years ago). You can register your small business and obtain tax numbers for free (not llc or inc) if you wish, although I did that years ago for a small computer business and see little point unless your sales are over the no-tax limit or you want to protect a business name. Obviously this doesn't provide protection from personal liability, but it keeps you legit with the tax man.

EDIT: LEET!!!

[amptramp]

Regarding Ontario law, you can set up a sole proprietorship which allows you to use a "company" name other than your own name and allows you to establish a bank account for it.  You have no protection against legal liability since the sole proprietorship is basically yourself.

[garcho]

What I meant was IF you should start a bonafide business you'll know. Don't just decide one day and think that going through the first steps will make it all happen for you.

[GGBB]

What I meant was IF you should start a bonafide business you'll know. Don't just decide one day and think that going through the first steps will make it all happen for you.

+1 - especially when those first steps are merely about how to lower your costs and increase production.