Press n peel large areas of toner / ground planes

[statzern]

Hey all,

I am working on etching enclosures, and I'm having a hard time with us I press n peel. I have made a lot of progress, getting rid of the smudging and smearing, and now I am just having issues with getting large areas of toner to completely transfer. I think I have heard of others ha in this problem so I thought I would ask for some advice.

I was previously having issues with smudging and smearing and I turned my iron temp down to the polyester range. This pretty much 100% solved the problem. I was having a little tiny bit of bubbling with the film at the higher temps and now that's gone.

I also am taping the edges (currently just the top and bottom edges, leaving the sides open for air escape) and this has also helped pretty film movement during ironing.

Thanks in advance for any advice. Will post updates as progress is made

[Granny Gremlin]

I've been looking in to trying some etching myself (so far I hand paint enclosures and use manufactured PCBs or perf/veroboard) and I'm reading a lot about how PnP is problematic like that.  Most folks recommend using super glossy photo paper (I see some recommending inkjet paper; used in a laser so that the toner doesn't bind so well on purpose and therefore transfers better - others say use laser paper).  From what I am reading I am leaning to trying inkjet first, but hopefully some good folks will chime in and clear things up.

[statzern]

Hey GG --

So I have actually used lots of different papers in the past, including photo paper, magazine, sticker backing paper etc etc. My best results in terms of total transfer have actually been with the sticker backing paper, but with one major problem -- the FeCl actually penetrates the toner!! I've read about it, and I feel like it's due to lack of a protective layer. As I've read, toner is porous, and will let a certain amount of etchant through unless it's "masked" (eg, adding nail polish over it). This is where PnP comes in: it has the blue stuff that seals in the toner, or other systems like TTP's "green foil." I feel like it's a waste to have to put nail polish all over my enclosure because I certainly can't do it as accurate as my printer!! And it's the edges that aren't covered by polish that get pitting, so it's definitely necessary with just toner.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand... Anyone have any ironing techniques/advice? Maybe just more heat and time are all that are needed. Will try again and report back.

[deadastronaut]

when printing make sure your ''toner save'' option is off..

and do it at ''best'' quality/dark text etc...you want the toner thick,

and have a well prepared ''keyed''  and ''clean'' surface..

heres how I do it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cg4UoS6ecY

[Granny Gremlin]

Cool, thanks for that.  Got any opinions on whether to use laser or inkjet photo paper (either way printing on it via laser printer)?  Also, what does "150 gsm" mean?

[karbomusic]

There is an HP Presentation paper that will work better than most any photo paper and... IMHO better in general than PnP. Not to mention PnP is a buck or two -per sheet- and this is more like 6 cents per sheet and often less hassle with good/better results than PnP...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FV876I

A few months back I spent a probably +100.00 USD on various photo type papers and materials in order to test and the HP Presentation paper was the winner by far... IIRC all of the below were done with the paper above. Also, the HP paper is thin enough that soak time is only a couple minutes, then you can rub it off with your finger followed by scrubbing the remaining with a stiff toothbrush. 

[deadastronaut]

Cool, thanks for that.  Got any opinions on whether to use laser or inkjet photo paper (either way printing on it via laser printer)?  Also, what does "150 gsm" mean?

GSM=grams per sq metre...

i use 'verbatim' glossy photo paper, nothing fancy..never had any issues..

http://www.diskdepot.co.uk/acatalog/verbatim-a4-glossy-photo-paper-38996-100-sheets-verbati081.htm

[Granny Gremlin]

Thanks all.  The presentation paper was cheaper and comes in a larger pack so that's what I grabbed.  We'll see how that goes.

[bloxstompboxes]

Good luck GG. I use the presentation paper from HP and it works awesomely. I like it better than magazine paper, which is what I was using. I have tried photo paper too but it is so expensive and no better than the HP paper to me.

[Granny Gremlin]

So, in typical Granny fashion, my first attempt was a tad ambitious.  It came out well enough for this project (for me not someone else, and I like imperfections), but I learned a lot and know how to make it better next time.  It's quite noisey (in the visual sense), but I know why; cheap box that was more pitted than those I have gotten from other suppliers but I have been able to sand to a nice enough finish for paint (but apparently not for etching).  I just really need to grind it down a lot more before applying the toner transfer - I shoulda thought of that, but my arm was tired from sanding.  If I try etching on these cheaper boxes again I might have to bust out the power sander.  As an example, here's a pic of another one from the same supplier on the left, and one from a more beloved supplier on the right.  HUGE diff in surface quality (you get what you pay for)  - you can tell even through the plastic packaging...and no I will not name names (though I will say neither are Tayda, because I assume folks would guess that and it's not fair to imply anything about their box quality because I have never used theirs and don't know how they compare).



Anyway, my first go:

[deadastronaut]

etching is all in the prep....build up those arms..

[slashandburn]

Yeah sanding the box smooth and getting a good transfer are the difficult parts (in my own limited experience).

If using pnp blue I've found the tip in Mark M's tutorial helps if I've large areas that need masked. Leave them white and either tape over them or (fairly liberally)paint over them after  the toner transfer. It's more work, but I sometimes find it helps get a good clean toner transfer. Any air bubbles trapped underneath the film can be worked into the big white sections rather than the corners or edges.. I hope I'm making sense. It sounds counter-productive, I know. Deliberately leaving some sections completely blank on your main mask.

Maybe it's just press n peel. Maybe it's all in my head. I've had better transfers leaving those blank sections. Not an issue with PCBs as the spaces between the traces do the same job, I guess.