Some quick Mk II questions

[thermionix]

So I've got a TB Mk II on the breadboard, and I'm getting some cool results so far.  Problem is, I have no experience at all with a Tonebender and I'm a little unsure about what I'm going for.

Do folks usually use them with the attack control full up like they do with Fuzz Faces?  I'm using a fixed resistor in place of the pot, so that's why I ask.

Do people usually play with their guitar volume down a bit, also like Fuzz Faces?  In other words, is the Tonebender supposed to be really fuzzy when everything is turned up?  I've got Jimmy Page on the brain, and he's not known for such a fuzzy tone.  But I can get a sorta Pagey grind if I lower the volume on my guitar.

Man, the Q1 base resistor value sure is critical!  Anybody ever put a pot there to make an external control?

[Electric Warrior]

So I've got a TB Mk II on the breadboard, and I'm getting some cool results so far.  Problem is, I have no experience at all with a Tonebender and I'm a little confused about a couple things.

Do folks usually use them with the attack control full up like they do with Fuzz Faces?  I'm using a fixed resistor in place of the pot, so that's why I ask.

Do people usually play with their guitar volume down a bit, also like Fuzz Faces?  In other words, is the Tonebender supposed to be really fuzzy when everything is turned up?  I've got Jimmy Page on the brain, and he's not known for such a fuzzy tone.  But I can get a sorta Pagey grind if I lower the volume on my guitar.

Man, the Q1 base resistor value sure is critical!  Anybody ever put a pot there to make an external control?

A MKII should have a good range of fuzz sounds on the attack control. Using a pot would definitely make sense.

It's not even confirmed that Page's Tone Bender was a MKII. Sola Sound also used that enclosure for MKIs and Mk1.5s.
Jeff Beck's 'Truth' is a good reference for MKII tone (except for Beck's Bolero, which was recorded earlier and probably featuered a MKI).
If you find your circuit overly fuzzy you might have gone a little too far with Q1's base resistor.
Lowering the guitar's volume should get you tamer or cleaner sounds, depending on how it's biased. Some people use the guitar volume a lot. Some don't.

Yes, Q1's base resistor and Q2's collector resistor are where the bias should be set. I don't think anyone makes a MKII with an external Q1 bias. Q2 can be really useful as it can be used to dial out (or in) the gating.

Got any voltage readings?

[thermionix]

Voltages are fluid as I'm still swapping stuff around on the BB.  Last checked I had collector voltages around -8.6, -0.5, -7.2 (Q1, Q2, Q3) with a battery at 8.9v or so.  This was with a 2k on Q3e.  For Fuzz Faces, I like to omit the fuzz pot and bias Q2 with the emitter resistor, thus maintaining the "stock" voltage divider ratio for the output.  Not necessarily my plan for the Mk II though, just easier to set up on the BB.  Q3 will likely be changed.

Not really trying to nail any specific Page or Beck sound, just wondering more broadly if TBs are supposed to be so fuzzy, with guitar volume and attack control turned up.  It sounds cool, like a good FF, but I guess I thought the TB would be a little different, less fuzzy.

ETA:  Thinking about JB's Truth, I wouldn't consider his tone to be very fuzzy.  Do you think he's keeping his controls down some, or is that more like a Mk II should sound maxed out?

[Electric Warrior]

Probably dialing down a bit. Check out this clip of Joe Bonamassa emulating the tone, dialing down his volume controls and nailing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=turUXRC1ZYM

Q1 is in the right ballpark, but Q2 and Q3 are not quite there. You could try a larger resistor on Q2's collector to get the voltage down to 0.1 to 0.2V. That will bring up Q3 as well. Vintage units rarely measure under 8V there. The stock 1k on Q3's emitter should do fine..

Here are voltage readings of my vintage unit for reference:

Battery: 9.67V
Q1 C -9.02V B -0.03V E 0V
Q2 C -0.17V B -0.08V E 0V
Q3 C -8.44V B -0.17V E -0.11V

[thermionix]

Hey thanks!  Those numbers will really help, I was aiming for the wrong thing at Q2 for sure.  The Joe B. clip is fairly fuzzy, and if that's with his controls down some, surely it would be really fuzzy with everything full up.

[Electric Warrior]

No problem!
He cranks it further up at 0:21.