Madbean Naughty Fish not Working in Band Pass

[Slowpoke101]

Very odd.
I suggest that you check all the components associated with ICs 1 and 3. Make sure that the components are the correct value. Mainly R4 to R10. Also check that the pot terminals where they pass through the board are not shorting to any close tracks - The terminals start out fairly wide at the pot body then narrow sharply where the terminal passes through the board. The wider area can short to nearby tracks.

Got the pictures. So far everything looks OK but do check the wiring to the range switch. It is easy to make a mistake here.

Once you check all that would it be possible to remeasure the voltages on IC1 and 3 when in each filter mode ( LP/BP/HP ). Set the Gain and Peak controls to mid range when taking the measurements.

[dobo2001]

Very odd.
I suggest that you check all the components associated with ICs 1 and 3. Make sure that the components are the correct value. Mainly R4 to R10. Also check that the pot terminals where they pass through the board are not shorting to any close tracks - The terminals start out fairly wide at the pot body then narrow sharply where the terminal passes through the board. The wider area can short to nearby tracks.

Got the pictures. So far everything looks OK but do check the wiring to the range switch. It is easy to make a mistake here.

Once you check all that would it be possible to remeasure the voltages on IC1 and 3 when in each filter mode ( LP/BP/HP ). Set the Gain and Peak controls to mid range when taking the measurements.

No shorts on the pots. Haven't been through all the components but they look good so far.

Range switch wiring is correct, and functions properly.

Here are the voltages. The ones for LP and HP were very similar, so it's formatted (Pin- LP Voltage / HP Voltage)

IC1
1- 1.1 mV / 1.2 mV
2- 1.1 mV / 1.1 mV
3- 0 / 0
4- -8.18 V / -8.17 V
5- 1.1 mV / 1.2 mV
6- 0 / 0
7- 1.3 mV / 1.2 mV
8- 8.67 V / 8.67 V

IC3
1- 2.9 mV / 3 mV
2- 1.2 mV / 1.2 mV
3- 0 / 0
4- -8.18 V / -8.18 V
5- 0 / 0
6- 3 mV / 3mV
7- -1.2 mV / -1.2 mV
8- 8.67 V / 8.67 V

And here are the voltages for Band Pass

IC1
1- 1.2 mV
2- 1 mV
3- -0.01 mV
4- -7.66 V
5- 1.2 mV
6- 3.94 V
7- 1.563 V
8- 8.58 V

IC3
1- 4.6 mV
2- 0.09 mV
3- 0
4- -7.67 V
5- 0
6- 1.9 mV
7- 7.89 V
8- 8.61 V

Obviously something going on in the higher pins, I was maybe thinking about replacing the On-On-On switch as I have another, but I would want to save that as a complete last resort as it's a pain to desolder that thing.

[Slowpoke101]

This is getting very strange indeed. The problem could be the on/on/on switch but that is very unlikely but it can be tested without too much trouble. I will post a "how to test" picture series if you want.
However the problem with the -9V rail is more concerning. When you have all the chips installed the -9V rail fails which means (usually) that too much current is being drawn. Perhaps some sort of instability is occurring. I suggest that you replace all the TL072 chips with 4558 types and see if things calm down.

[Kipper4]

I havent read all the responses so forgive me if I'm repeating some replies.

Ic 1 2 and 3 should all have +9v on pin 8
All NI inputs should be at 0v
and all thier pin4's should be -9v

Some charge pumps are sensitive to over voltage. Some are just sensitive......

for info
Ic1 A input gain stage
Ic1 B, Ic3 A & B  all three form the state variable filter. The bit that goes Wah.
Ic2 A & B make up the envelope detector.
Ic4 is the charge pump (psu) supplying the +9v,  0v(V 1/2 or Vb ),  -9v

Have you got C14 the right way round?

I'd worry about the power supply first then the rest.

For future reference heres a switching diagram link.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Switches2_Diag_4.gif


Merry christmas guys

[dobo2001]

This is getting very strange indeed. The problem could be the on/on/on switch but that is very unlikely but it can be tested without too much trouble. I will post a "how to test" picture series if you want.
However the problem with the -9V rail is more concerning. When you have all the chips installed the -9V rail fails which means (usually) that too much current is being drawn. Perhaps some sort of instability is occurring. I suggest that you replace all the TL072 chips with 4558 types and see if things calm down.

Replaced all of them with JRC4558D's and still had the same problem with similar voltages.

[dobo2001]

I havent read all the responses so forgive me if I'm repeating some replies.

Ic 1 2 and 3 should all have +9v on pin 8
All NI inputs should be at 0v
and all thier pin4's should be -9v

Some charge pumps are sensitive to over voltage. Some are just sensitive......

for info
Ic1 A input gain stage
Ic1 B, Ic3 A & B  all three form the state variable filter. The bit that goes Wah.
Ic2 A & B make up the envelope detector.
Ic4 is the charge pump (psu) supplying the +9v,  0v(V 1/2 or Vb ),  -9v

Have you got C14 the right way round?

I'd worry about the power supply first then the rest.

For future reference heres a switching diagram link.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Switches2_Diag_4.gif


Merry christmas guys

C14 is in the correct orientation, unless Elna caps are different from the norm... Switching checks out as well. I've tried multiple LT1054's and switched in IC's from a confirmed working build but that still doesn't do it.

[dobo2001]

Very odd.
I suggest that you check all the components associated with ICs 1 and 3. Make sure that the components are the correct value. Mainly R4 to R10. Also check that the pot terminals where they pass through the board are not shorting to any close tracks - The terminals start out fairly wide at the pot body then narrow sharply where the terminal passes through the board. The wider area can short to nearby tracks.

Got the pictures. So far everything looks OK but do check the wiring to the range switch. It is easy to make a mistake here.

Once you check all that would it be possible to remeasure the voltages on IC1 and 3 when in each filter mode ( LP/BP/HP ). Set the Gain and Peak controls to mid range when taking the measurements.

Component values all check out, I've been comparing this one to the working one and everything looks identical. Also did a bunch of reflows around the IC's and other components to no avail.

[dobo2001]

I havent read all the responses so forgive me if I'm repeating some replies.

Ic 1 2 and 3 should all have +9v on pin 8
All NI inputs should be at 0v
and all thier pin4's should be -9v

Some charge pumps are sensitive to over voltage. Some are just sensitive......

for info
Ic1 A input gain stage
Ic1 B, Ic3 A & B  all three form the state variable filter. The bit that goes Wah.
Ic2 A & B make up the envelope detector.
Ic4 is the charge pump (psu) supplying the +9v,  0v(V 1/2 or Vb ),  -9v

Have you got C14 the right way round?

I'd worry about the power supply first then the rest.

For future reference heres a switching diagram link.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Switches2_Diag_4.gif


Merry christmas guys

Another interesting thing is that the audio will go through IC1 A fine, but cuts out at IC1 B, which is where all the voltages go wrong. Not sure why the "B" parts of the IC's have wonky voltages but the "A" sides seem to work fine.

[dobo2001]

I havent read all the responses so forgive me if I'm repeating some replies.

Ic 1 2 and 3 should all have +9v on pin 8
All NI inputs should be at 0v
and all thier pin4's should be -9v

Some charge pumps are sensitive to over voltage. Some are just sensitive......

for info
Ic1 A input gain stage
Ic1 B, Ic3 A & B  all three form the state variable filter. The bit that goes Wah.
Ic2 A & B make up the envelope detector.
Ic4 is the charge pump (psu) supplying the +9v,  0v(V 1/2 or Vb ),  -9v

Have you got C14 the right way round?

I'd worry about the power supply first then the rest.

For future reference heres a switching diagram link.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Switches2_Diag_4.gif


Merry christmas guys

Checked the switch again and I'm getting some weird stuff. I've linked to a pic of a diagram I drew of the pins which have continuity between them when the switch is on BP, and it doesn't look correct to me: https://imgur.com/a/T6ittrt

[bean]

I havent read all the responses so forgive me if I'm repeating some replies.

Ic 1 2 and 3 should all have +9v on pin 8
All NI inputs should be at 0v
and all thier pin4's should be -9v

Some charge pumps are sensitive to over voltage. Some are just sensitive......

for info
Ic1 A input gain stage
Ic1 B, Ic3 A & B  all three form the state variable filter. The bit that goes Wah.
Ic2 A & B make up the envelope detector.
Ic4 is the charge pump (psu) supplying the +9v,  0v(V 1/2 or Vb ),  -9v

Have you got C14 the right way round?

I'd worry about the power supply first then the rest.

For future reference heres a switching diagram link.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Switches2_Diag_4.gif


Merry christmas guys

Checked the switch again and I'm getting some weird stuff. I've linked to a pic of a diagram I drew of the pins which have continuity between them when the switch is on BP, and it doesn't look correct to me: https://imgur.com/a/T6ittrt

The upper left and lower right connections are correct. The upper right connection is definitely not correct for bandpass mode. So, that seems to be the problem area (or at least one of them).

If you have another On/On/On switch just like the one you used in the build, check the pin continuities in the middle position to rule out the switch itself. Ruling that out there are two likely possibilities: there is excess solder in those pads for the switch causing the false connection or the board itself is boned somehow. Unfortunately, there is no way to know without doing something. If you have a desoldering gun, try sucking some solder out of those pads then re-melt and recheck the continuity. If you decide to go all the way and remove the switch get a good pic of the top and bottom of the board after so I can see what's going on.

In any case - if you ruin the board getting the switch out not to worry: I'll send you another gratis.

[dobo2001]

I havent read all the responses so forgive me if I'm repeating some replies.

Ic 1 2 and 3 should all have +9v on pin 8
All NI inputs should be at 0v
and all thier pin4's should be -9v

Some charge pumps are sensitive to over voltage. Some are just sensitive......

for info
Ic1 A input gain stage
Ic1 B, Ic3 A & B  all three form the state variable filter. The bit that goes Wah.
Ic2 A & B make up the envelope detector.
Ic4 is the charge pump (psu) supplying the +9v,  0v(V 1/2 or Vb ),  -9v

Have you got C14 the right way round?

I'd worry about the power supply first then the rest.

For future reference heres a switching diagram link.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Switches2_Diag_4.gif


Merry christmas guys

Checked the switch again and I'm getting some weird stuff. I've linked to a pic of a diagram I drew of the pins which have continuity between them when the switch is on BP, and it doesn't look correct to me: https://imgur.com/a/T6ittrt

The upper left and lower right connections are correct. The upper right connection is definitely not correct for bandpass mode. So, that seems to be the problem area (or at least one of them).

If you have another On/On/On switch just like the one you used in the build, check the pin continuities in the middle position to rule out the switch itself. Ruling that out there are two likely possibilities: there is excess solder in those pads for the switch causing the false connection or the board itself is boned somehow. Unfortunately, there is no way to know without doing something. If you have a desoldering gun, try sucking some solder out of those pads then re-melt and recheck the continuity. If you decide to go all the way and remove the switch get a good pic of the top and bottom of the board after so I can see what's going on.

In any case - if you ruin the board getting the switch out not to worry: I'll send you another gratis.

Just to clarify, this is when the switch is in the far-right position when looking at the face of the pedal. Is that HP and not BP? I assumed the switching order from left to right when looking at the face of the pedal was LP-HP-BP. So is all the way right HP? That's the setting this continuity is from and where the problems are.

Checked the continuity with an identical switch and it is correct according to the diagrams posted earlier, not the same as the one currently installed. I'm going to try and desolder soon.

[Slowpoke101]

I hope that replacing the switch fixes the problem. Getting it out will not be easy.
Bean's generous offer to send you a new board if you damage it is a great offer that you may need to take him up on.
I was about to post a "how to test" the switch picture but you have already tested it so not to worry.
Good luck and don't rush the de-soldering.

[dobo2001]

I havent read all the responses so forgive me if I'm repeating some replies.

Ic 1 2 and 3 should all have +9v on pin 8
All NI inputs should be at 0v
and all thier pin4's should be -9v

Some charge pumps are sensitive to over voltage. Some are just sensitive......

for info
Ic1 A input gain stage
Ic1 B, Ic3 A & B  all three form the state variable filter. The bit that goes Wah.
Ic2 A & B make up the envelope detector.
Ic4 is the charge pump (psu) supplying the +9v,  0v(V 1/2 or Vb ),  -9v

Have you got C14 the right way round?

I'd worry about the power supply first then the rest.

For future reference heres a switching diagram link.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Switches2_Diag_4.gif


Merry christmas guys

Checked the switch again and I'm getting some weird stuff. I've linked to a pic of a diagram I drew of the pins which have continuity between them when the switch is on BP, and it doesn't look correct to me: https://imgur.com/a/T6ittrt

The upper left and lower right connections are correct. The upper right connection is definitely not correct for bandpass mode. So, that seems to be the problem area (or at least one of them).

If you have another On/On/On switch just like the one you used in the build, check the pin continuities in the middle position to rule out the switch itself. Ruling that out there are two likely possibilities: there is excess solder in those pads for the switch causing the false connection or the board itself is boned somehow. Unfortunately, there is no way to know without doing something. If you have a desoldering gun, try sucking some solder out of those pads then re-melt and recheck the continuity. If you decide to go all the way and remove the switch get a good pic of the top and bottom of the board after so I can see what's going on.

In any case - if you ruin the board getting the switch out not to worry: I'll send you another gratis.

Look at what I found! https://imgur.com/a/CVFCebS  I lifted some of the pads on the back of the board so but everything else looks good. Hope all the connections are still good, I'll wait for you professional opinion before replacing everything.

Here's a pic of the front of the board, looks good there: https://imgur.com/a/7eyP1Xu

[bean]

Okay, yeah. That was a strong possibility. Also, I might have read through your earlier comment too fast - here is a diagram of exactly how the connections should be relative to the switch position.



What you have there may be salvageable. I would clean those pads up first, then us the trace diagram in the build doc to check you still have continuity between the remaining pads and the next place the traces attached to them lead to. Main questions is has the through-hole plating survived enough to make good solder contacts. Pretty hard to tell from the pic and with the pads in the shape they are.

[dobo2001]

Okay, yeah. That was a strong possibility. Also, I might have read through your earlier comment too fast - here is a diagram of exactly how the connections should be relative to the switch position.



What you have there may be salvageable. I would clean those pads up first, then us the trace diagram in the build doc to check you still have continuity between the remaining pads and the next place the traces attached to them lead to. Main questions is has the through-hole plating survived enough to make good solder contacts. Pretty hard to tell from the pic and with the pads in the shape they are.

Trace diagram and continuity checked out, the through hole plating is certainly damaged on some of the pads but intact.

[bean]

Okay, yeah. That was a strong possibility. Also, I might have read through your earlier comment too fast - here is a diagram of exactly how the connections should be relative to the switch position.



What you have there may be salvageable. I would clean those pads up first, then us the trace diagram in the build doc to check you still have continuity between the remaining pads and the next place the traces attached to them lead to. Main questions is has the through-hole plating survived enough to make good solder contacts. Pretty hard to tell from the pic and with the pads in the shape they are.

Trace diagram and continuity checked out, the through hole plating is certainly damaged on some of the pads but intact.

If you wanna exercise extreme caution (and maybe not, haha) you could put wires on your O/O/O switch a tack solder them to the pads first to test before committing to re-soldering the switch directly to the PCB. Admittedly, that's a lot of extra work.

[dobo2001]

Okay, yeah. That was a strong possibility. Also, I might have read through your earlier comment too fast - here is a diagram of exactly how the connections should be relative to the switch position.



What you have there may be salvageable. I would clean those pads up first, then us the trace diagram in the build doc to check you still have continuity between the remaining pads and the next place the traces attached to them lead to. Main questions is has the through-hole plating survived enough to make good solder contacts. Pretty hard to tell from the pic and with the pads in the shape they are.

Trace diagram and continuity checked out, the through hole plating is certainly damaged on some of the pads but intact.

If you wanna exercise extreme caution (and maybe not, haha) you could put wires on your O/O/O switch a tack solder them to the pads first to test before committing to re-soldering the switch directly to the PCB. Admittedly, that's a lot of extra work.

Decided to just go ahead and swap in a new switch. Works perfectly! It's always the worst when it's stuff this simple. Thanks so much Brian for being awesome and everyone else for helping out!

[bean]

Okay, yeah. That was a strong possibility. Also, I might have read through your earlier comment too fast - here is a diagram of exactly how the connections should be relative to the switch position.



What you have there may be salvageable. I would clean those pads up first, then us the trace diagram in the build doc to check you still have continuity between the remaining pads and the next place the traces attached to them lead to. Main questions is has the through-hole plating survived enough to make good solder contacts. Pretty hard to tell from the pic and with the pads in the shape they are.

Trace diagram and continuity checked out, the through hole plating is certainly damaged on some of the pads but intact.

If you wanna exercise extreme caution (and maybe not, haha) you could put wires on your O/O/O switch a tack solder them to the pads first to test before committing to re-soldering the switch directly to the PCB. Admittedly, that's a lot of extra work.

Decided to just go ahead and swap in a new switch. Works perfectly! It's always the worst when it's stuff this simple. Thanks so much Brian for being awesome and everyone else for helping out!

Really glad you got it working! Hopefully it was worth the effor.

[bean]

t.