help me graft a belton reverb into an old ss marshall?

[pinkjimiphoton]

hi guys,
been a while, slowly working my way around since a switch to linux. dual boot attempt hosed my windows, so everything's weird.

anyways, i got one of these old early 80's marshall 5010 30 watt ss combos. i know, no tubes, but i don't care. this is my fav sounding marshalls, hands down. nice and brown n toney, jcm800 era, LIGHT... love 'em. sound like the real mccoy minus the earbleed glasswigs chewing thru your head. perfect for me.

but... i'm a child of the 60's, and kinda dig some reverb. there's no loop on this amp... speaking of, here's the schematic



so i was thinking about it, and i would kinda like to graft a reverb  into it. i've gotta brick and brick based verb board <barry's guitarpcb addverb, i think he calls it>

https://guitarpcb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/BD_ADD-VERB-Build-Document.pdf
https://guitarpcb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/BD_ADD-VERB-Build-Document.pdf

and i was thinking perhaps i could mod it and graft it in? or am i gonna overdrive the reverb circuit too much?
i was literally thinking just going real simple, from the output of the master volume wiper thru a cap to the verb board and then back out to the power amp section, as the reverb has a blend on it already, and two simple gain stages at the front and back of it.

kinda an alien world to me, but seems like it should work... any caveats i should heed? would i need to graft in buffer circuits still, despite the gain stages of the reverb pcb?

not entirely sure i'll do this, but the marshall full - tilt boogie is JUSSSSSSST about right to play with my band live, if i mic it. i can get by without any pedals <sacrilege!!!> and , well, frankly, reverb into the front is gonna kinda sound like :poop:

if i can graft it in q&d tho, it may be worth a go. figured i'd make the volume and tone pots trimmers, and mount the reverb and dwell knobs thru the front panel of the amp. i know, sacrilege... but who other than me REALLY gives a shit about old solid state marshalls?



or would i be better off to put the whole mess in parallel with say,  the tone stack drive/recovery stage, and add a simple passive mixer to dump it to the power amp?

i appreciate all thoughts and advice, and super-extra points for funny replies. i could use a good trolling

[Mark Hammer]

The Addverb seems like a standalone pedal circuit.  That's not a "bad" thing, but requires some adaptation to stuff into the Marshall.

My first instinct is to take the reverb feed off pin 7 on IC1b, and mix its output in with the Presence signal at the input to the Master Volume control.  The wrinkle, however, is that IC1b can have a s**tload of gain, which is probably not great for the Belton brick.  So, you'd need some sort of padding for the first gain-stage before it hits the brick.

And if you want trolling, I think my beard is now much larger than yours.  Not quite Billy Gibbons, mind you, but not that far behind.  Retirement has its benefits.  It has its curses, too.  This afternoon, I spotted an early issue A/DA flanger on Kijiji for $80Cdn and corresponded to the ad as fast as I could, but it went to another buyer.  Were I working, I wouldn't have seen the ad and wouldn't be as disappointed as I am at the moment.

[vigilante397]

reverb into the front is gonna kinda sound like :poop:

How do you know? My beautiful tube amp doesn't have reverb or an FX loop so I run a Belton reverb into the front and it sounds fabulous.

[pinkjimiphoton]

lol,, probably not so marvelous into a dimed ss marshall

i was thinking something similar to mark's idea, too...
wonder if just a simple trimmer to ground before the input of the brick would do the trick, q&d style... or will it need a buffer to keep the preamp path's tonal integrity?

wonder wonder

yeah, my beard SUX. lol its coming off after halloween

[tubegeek]

My beard comes in so white these days it scares me half to death. No crumbcatcher for me these days!

[pinkjimiphoton]

haha,
i look just like satan claus now

ummm....its almost legal here, sooooo.....

[bluebunny]

We need a beard thread.  Mark's was looking biblical last time we saw it.  Mine was also a Santa at the end of last year (great timing!).  Or for the Brits: think "Uncle Albert"...      Now it's just a mouth adornment (thankfully).  I'd love it to grow long, but that never works out.  I guess I'll never be getting that ZZ Top gig...   

Anyways, nothing to do with reverb.  Soz.  Back to your regular programming. 

[duck_arse]

hi guys,
been a while, slowly working my way around since a switch to linux.

what took you so long?

I hate shaving, so I have a new beard every 5 weeks or so.

[vigilante397]

I hate shaving, but if I miss more than a day or two of shaving my wife won't come near me. It's a worthwhile sacrifice

[pinkjimiphoton]

lol.... only real reason i have a beard is cuz
1: i'm too lazy to shave very often
2: wagner nailed it... no beard? i look like the quaker oats guy

so... no reverb? hmmmm...

i ended up boxing it last nite instead of mounting it in the amp, tho i may still dick around with adding it internally. i gotta LONG delay belton. now i know why folks say they suck. i thought that was the decay time it meant by long, didn't realize that's describing the initial slap.
g
the reverb sounds great, as long as ya don't whack the input with too much level and make it go CLANG CLANg  CLAng CLang

oy.

i'd post a pic, but have to use a live linux distro to get online til i sort out the hosing of my MBR for windoze.
linux can be great.

or it can suck.

i am firmly between the two points


shit, if my wife won't come near me, its worth it to grow a beard.

just call me al bundy. a good nite's sleep once in a while is a beautiful thing at my advanced decrepedcy

[anotherjim]

Probably not perfect - because its pre tone and master, but I would try from C5 and mix the return from a reverb level pot and a C and an R into IC1 pin2. Use small series caps to reduce bass in the wet signal.
Funny amp design. I can't see any attempt at "tube sound" apart from EQ. I bet you have really nice well run-in speakers in that combo.
Not allowed a beard myself. If I do, I look like Captain Birdseye.

[pinkjimiphoton]

this amp sounds great.
i was kinda jazzed when i realized the guvnor picked the same chip for the preamp i've picked for the missing link audio stuff, the venerable 1458. best sounding chip for overdrive of them all, imho... kinda like a pat on the back from beyond the grave

i will try messing with the suggestions over the weekend hopefully, not gonna f it up right before a gig. not super impressed with the sound of this one, sadly. shoulda listened to barry and went with the short or medium delay brick i guess.

brings me to another ponder... i wonder if this would sound better if i grafted in a second brick in parallel with the first? betting a short delay and long delay together would sound brilliant. or like dreck. i figure the odds be 50-50 lol

you could rock a beard bro. anybody can. except maybe a lady. but then, some may still rock one!

[bluebunny]

Captain Birdseye?  Uncle Albert?  Both were unsettling close.   

Thank goodness for beard trimmers and good f***in' sense!   

[pinkjimiphoton]

don't have access to my graphic editor stuff, but thought ya may like this old-school pinkjimiphoton vibe build... in radio shack project box, like i did in days of yore. now i buy bulk 1590a's and b's, but i needed more like a 125b for this build and didn't have any, but i DID have ONE old school rat shack box left, so i used it. what a pain in the ass them suckers were!!




tried it into the front of the marshall with fair results, tho a little to clangorous for my taste. be better after the preamp or in parallel with it i think, shit, even series from the master may be ok..... if i bump the b+ up to 12-0-12 or so as in the amp, the 5v reg should still be ok, right? cuz thinking a tl0X2 or NE5532 should be able to handle the headroom if i bump up the supply a bit... caps are good to 25v for a supply, and 16 for the ref voltage

i like good sense

beards are wonderful things. getting old is ok. we gotta pass the torch on eventually and hope for the best

[Mark Hammer]

haha,
i look just like satan claus now

ummm....its almost legal here, sooooo.....

You've got me beat in the hair department.  But I'm winning in the beard department.  I tell folks you gotta grow it where you can while you can, because those days don't last forever. 

[vigilante397]

if i bump the b+ up to 12-0-12 or so as in the amp, the 5v reg should still be ok, right?

Are you using a 78L05 or one of the L7805 with the heatsink on it? If it's one of the smaller guys I would be a little worried, but in a big heatsink package you are probably still fine. The Belton brick pulls 100mA maximum, 60mA typical.

[pinkjimiphoton]

if i bump the b+ up to 12-0-12 or so as in the amp, the 5v reg should still be ok, right?

Are you using a 78L05 or one of the L7805 with the heatsink on it? If it's one of the smaller guys I would be a little worried, but in a big heatsink package you are probably still fine. The Belton brick pulls 100mA maximum, 60mA typical.

using the smaller 7805, but i DO  have the larger l7805 with the heat sink.
this weekend gonna mess with it some, see what shakes out

thans for the info!!

my  k key is @#$%ed up sometimes lol