Russian Bucket Brigade Delays

[replaceablehead]

I've been searching for something to sub for a sad1024 and I found these Russian ka528br2 ICs on eBay. Can't seem to find much on them, but they're variously listed as mn3001, or sa1024 equivalents. Anyone know more about them?

[Scruffie]

They got brought up recently in a Dynaflange thread, here were my best educated guesses from the Russian datasheets where it does seem closest to an MN3001 https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=104472.msg1161420#msg1161420

It's definitely not a sub for a SAD1024 and while nothing is, the MN3007 usually comes closest in most areas once its clock frequency is doubled but they all involve compromise, circuit adaptions and is circuit specific.

[replaceablehead]

Bummer.

I still can't believe it's not commercially viable to make these things. People talk about it being niche, I don't get that. Reticon sold most of their bbds too musical device manufacturers. People think "yeah, but how bigs the market for Electric Mistresses?", those people are missing the point, if the SAD1024 was rereleased I predict within two years it would be in 20% of all modulation devices on the consumer market. It's not just flanglers. Not to mention that a cult following is a marketeers wet dream.

My guess is they haven't relaunched it because they've lost the original manufacturing equipment, jello molds, blue prints idk how the make em but they've lost recipe. Why else would the 3207 and 3007 be commercially viable, but not the SAD1024?

[bluebunny]

I still can't believe it's not commercially viable to make these things.

Have a word with Santa.  Perhaps he can convince Cool Audio to resurrect them? 

[Scruffie]

I'm not a chip production expert but I've read the SAD1024 is a harder to produce chip than the Panasonic models, the technology was never perfected which is why the SAD512 exists, half the chip wouldn't work and they'd bond the pins to the working half. While they don't fail as much as people seem to think they do, they do have a much higher failure rate than the Panasonic chips.

I also don't think it is commercially viable, at least not any more, five, ten years ago it might have been but when was the last time one of the 'big guys' (EHX, MXR, BOSS etc.) produced a new analogue modulation effect (that didn't originally use a different BBD that already is available anyway)?
So it's reissued and we get the mistress and 117 flanger back... most people that have already bought the current reissues probably wont care about the change in sound that much, you ask the average musician what a SAD-1024 is and you'll likely get a raised eyebrow. And synth wise which is an important market... they weren't used that often.

As DIYers I think we should count ourselves extremely lucky the MN3005, 3007 & 3009 are now in production again, I'm not saying we'll never see it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It would be nice though if MXR released their MN3204 clone to the public, a 512 stage BBD would be handy.

[anotherjim]

IIRC, the Reticon BBD's were meant for telecom equipment. They were used to time compress short packets of audio allowing more channels to be multiplexed into a single channel in TDM systems and in voice scramblers. I expect the Russians wanted them for the same reasons.

[replaceablehead]

I'm not saying it doesn't need a bit of marketing and the manufacturing needs work too.

What was the market for tube amps before the right people said "tubes sound better". The mindset is "how many people want a EM?", "How many people want a flanger?". That's like saying "how many people want a piece of wood with six strings on it?". The market is what enteprising people make of it. The SAD1024 is one of the best modulation devices ever made, if you can't make money from it, it could be because you're at bad marketing, bad at manufacturing and bad at sales. Or maybe not.

Look I don't think it has to be remade exactly, I just can't understand how no one is making better chips with the same, or better capabilities. According to what I've read the digital technology to do the same things isn't cheap either, depending on how close you want to get.

With modern manufacturing methods a quality bbd with the same delay range as the SAD1024 aught to be pretty cost effective. In fact the more I look into it the more bbd's in general look like pretty good value for money.

But what the heck do I know. I'm just desperate. 😁

Case in point isn't the 3080 being made by Rochester? What about the xvive 3007? Are Rochester and xvive making them at a loss? Oh no, I forgot it's because the SAD1024 is so much harder to make to such an extreme degree that it is not viable whilst the 3007 is? Does that sound plausible? That no amount of redesign and manufacturing changes could bring it inline with the cost of the 3007? Is the packaging made of ivory?

I think it's a matter of the right people with the right skills just not being interested. Mankind has overcome far greater economic challenges than making a profitable bdd.

Imo 😁