Is the Vertex Steel String Clean Drive and AMZ Booster 2.5 the same thing ?

[Vivek]

Is the Vertex Steel String Clean Drive and AMZ Booster 2.5 the same thing ?

If yes, how come one claims to be Dumblesque, while the other is a pre-cursor of Brown Sound in a Box ?








Oops, I did some more surfing and this thing is shrouded in controversy. Sorry !!

I'm only after the technical angle on how simple mods can change tonal flavour from "Dumblesque" to "Brown Sound"

[GGBB]

Not identical but yes - basically the same thing. Not surprising - it's become a common topology for guitar pedals. The AMZ Booster 2.5 has inspired a lot of pedals - BSIAB -> BSIAB2 -> Wampler Pinnacle and others.

[Vivek]

Any comments on how minor changes can make the same circuit a "Dumble" or a "Brown sound" ?

[r080]

The 2 orders of magnitude higher source resistors might be part of the difference, but whether it makes it sound like a Dumble, I have no idea.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/vertex-steel-string-singer.2105851/page-5#post-29696866

[Digital Larry]

I'm pretty sure the big difference is either in the reverse polarity blocking diode or the power LED.

[Fancy Lime]

What makes a (commercial) pedal sound like a Dumble is usually the marketing department.

Andy

[r080]

And of course, the Vertex marketing department ... okay, I'm going to let that one go, as Vivek hopes to keep this technical.

I imagine there is something psychosomatic about knob positions. Based on Jack's post on TGP, it appears the Vertex pedal does not have the same gain as the booster 2.5.

Say, for example, you design two pedals with the exact same circuit, except for the gain pot having range setting resistors on opposite sides such that one pedal is much cleaner at the same pot settings. A user might set the knobs at noon, and then perceive one as "like an amp on the edge of breakup", and the other as "like a cranked marshall".

Another point about those two sounds - from what I understand, the Dumble sound is known as being compressed. The Brown Sound, on the other hand, was partly created by artificially lowering the mains voltage on a Marshall. Compared to a clean sounding Dumble, the Brown Sound might have the same overall amount of compression, but be created by clipping, rather than strictly clean dynamic compression, or sag.

Apologies if everything above is wrong. <--- I should make this my signature.

[Sesh]

What the others said - it's all marketing, ESPECIALLY with Vertex' Mason Marangella, who is a known con artist. He just released a new, (likely) phony Dumble-style pedal.

Fun reading: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/vertex-information-thread.2260521/

But in general... Dumble pedals put the "dumb" in Dumble. If I wanted the Dumble sound, I'd go for the Van Weelden Royal which the ACTUAL PREAMP of Dumble, but with solid state.. These type of circuits often come pretty close to the real deal (the Runoff Groove Supreaux, Benson Preamp etc.). Last I heard mr. PedalPCB was in the middle of degooping and tracing it, dunno if there's a schematic somewhere.

[aron]

I need to dig out that Booster 2.5. I never realized it sounded like a Dumble! Perfect!

[Vivek]

Dear Aron,

Great idea to add tone controls to the booster !

Respects !

[Steben]

What Dumble sound do they mean frankly?
SE amps? Cathodyne? phase inverter power amp?

There aren't million of amp typologies.... just some and a lot of EQ'ing...