Echo ICs

[Box_Stuffer]

Echo / delay has always been one of my favorite guitar effects. I'm still pretty new at building. So far I have done a couple of distortions from scratch on perf board. I would like to work on a basic delay and I got a handful of the ubiquitous PT2399 chips.

Are there any good alternatives to the 2399s? Is there anything more basic with less pins that might be easier for a noob to work with? I built a circuit on the breadboard based on a youtube video with one of these and it worked, but it was a mess.

[bluebunny]

Is there anything more basic with less pins that might be easier for a noob to work with?

No, not really.  MN3x0x may have half the pins, but it needs a clock (another chip) and it's way more tricky than the PT.  And more expensive.

Check out Madbean's "Cave Dweller" (for example) for something super-simple and very nice sounding.

[Invertiguy]

Easier than a PT2399? Probably not. The analog stuff requires a lot more supporting circuitry and is a lot more finicky and other digital chips are a whole different rabbit hole that requires coding knowledge and sometimes multiple supporting chips. The PT2399 is about as plug and play as it gets, which is why it's as popular as it is even in the age of the FV-1. Personally I would just go ahead and build the circuit on vero or perfboard with a socket for the chip and as long as you take your time, pay attention, and check your work it'll probably work out fine. Breadboards can be great for experimenting but a lot of them have sketchy contacts that can be really finicky and introduce problems that go away when you commit them to solder.

[GibsonGM]

Yeah, PT2399 can be a little intimidating to look at, but it really is just 'stuff it and go', and those 'messes' hanging off each leg can (and probably should!) be tackled as little individual blocks.

If making a starter generic echo just to get it going...if it does not retrigger well, that's a resistor from pin 6 to gnd issue (ask after you build it).

start here, the generic echo schematic is useful:  https://www.electrosmash.com/pt2399-analysis

[garcho]

I built a circuit on the breadboard based on a youtube video with one of these and it worked, but it was a mess

It's hard to breadboard delays without making a rat's nest! It sounds like you were successful, bravo. When you're ready for a hardwired version, you might want to buy a PCB of someone else's design, because stripboard/protoboard delays are as messy as the breadboarded versions. Trouble shooting can be maddening on perf with panel mount pots and stuff.

[Mark Hammer]

While the 2399 may appear a little intimidating, being a 16-pin chip, keep in mind that many of those pins are the in and out of several op-amp stages used for signal conditioning/filtering - something you would normally have to do for an analog delay with separate op-amps or transistor stages.  So it can LOOK complex because it packs a lot into the same package.  There's a reason why the chip is still in massive production and incorporated into so many budget delays - it significantly simplifies design and reduces both space and cost.

If you attempt the Cave Dweller, go with the 2022 version, and not the earlier one.  Bigger board, with a few more pieces, but apparently better frequency response.

I also like to mod delays by including some optional lowpass filtering in the feedback path.  This progressively shaves off treble in successive repeats, allowing one to max out repeats without having them clutter the soundscape, because the treble-removal moves them to the perceptual background.

To do this, you'd replace the 1M feedback resistor labelled as R11 on the Cavedweller 2022, with a 470k+470k pair in series.  Run a 390-470pf cap from their junction to ground to form a shallow lowpass filter.  The shallowness is important, since you want there to still be some mids/highs to remove after each pass/repeat.  Run a SPST toggle between the cap and ground if you want to defeat the mod.

[Digital Larry]

Run a SPST toggle between the cap and ground if you want to defeat the mod.

Put a 10M or 22M resistor across the switch to suppress pops.

[Box_Stuffer]

That's cool. I'm not a huge fan of analog echos anyway. I like to have more than 300ms of delay. I have a BOSS DD-3, TC Electronics Gauss & Danelectro Dan-echo (both tape echo emulators), and I have a couple that don't work - a DOD digital delay and an Aeris Effects Doomsday delay. The only analog I have is a Valeton AD-10 which is a BOSS DM-2 clone.

I got the Doomsday delay at a pawn shop and soon after it started popping really loud when switched on and it squeals like feedback. I sent it to the maker in Canada and they could not fix it! It is PT2399 based and it sounded really good when it worked. My DOD DFX9 needs a new switch and the sampling feature is not working.

[Ripthorn]

I love delays and reverbs. An alternative to the pt2399 is the es56033. It has shorter minimum delay time, which makes it more suitable for chorus and double tracking. It can do very long delay times, as well. However, the chip is far less common, though it is worth it for some stuff. You can see my projects here https://scientificguitarist.wixsite.com/home/projects

[bluebunny]

If you attempt the Cave Dweller, go with the 2022 version, and not the earlier one.  Bigger board, with a few more pieces, but apparently better frequency response.

Actually, I quite like the charm of the original (I've built both).  Squeezed it onto one of those small 9x25 vero boards.

[Ben N]

If you want simple, it doesn't get much simpler than this (thanks to GCWills):
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=120519.0
and you can even make a multitap delay:
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=130299.msg1263370#msg1263370
You have to desolder a resistor and maybe a pot, and wire in one or two pots, and wahlah! Oh, yeah, if you don't have a low impedance source feeding it, you'll need a 1-transistor buffer/preamp to feed it, no biggie.