2N5458 in Orange Squeezer ?

[Phend]

Getting back to this Brain Squeezer,

I have tried numerous Q2 Jfet's, and each, come up with a volatage at Q2 Gate of 0.000.
GGG instructions call out for 0.6 volt.
The other voltages are within reason, 0.5 volts.

For instance: mine (GGG)

Q1 G  2.6 (2.4)
Q1 S  4.5 (4.0)
Q1 D  9.4 (8.8 ) battery
Q2 G  0.0 (0.6)  ??
Q2 S  2.6 (2.6)
Q2 D  2.6 (2.1 to 2.6)

Is Q2 G at 0.0v reasonable for the Orange Squeezer ?
Or how would I obtain 0.6 (or close) volts ?

Thanks for any comment or discussion.

[PRR]

> GGG instructions call out for 0.6 volt.

I don't think that is right. Why would it be 0.6V at idle?

Does it squeeze?

[Phend]

Yes, in that subtle way, but sounds good. Tried J112, J201 and 2N5457 which I got on Amazon and tested them to verify they were Jfets. Using the meter, each type had different Q2 D voltage, however each worked, J201 sounds the best. And it certainly boosts.

[duck_arse]

follow the DC path on Q2 gate - where does it lead to? where can you get the 0V6 from, under the circumstances?

[antonis]

From a Gate very leaky item, perhaps..??

[Phend]

Checked for 0.6 volts, not found. 0.0v up to Pin 7 of 4558 (+ side of C6).
I have swapped out numerous Q2 with the same result of 0.0v at G.
Have incorporated the changes at Pin 3 (5) suggested by Rob and Mark as shown on the OS +++.
(I am using Pins 5 6 7 8 as shown on GGG) 4 =gnd  Pins 2 and 1 are connected.
This produces 4.5v at 1 2 3,  0v at 4,  4.9v at 5,  5.0v at 6 7,  and 9v at 8.
This does make the effect work as I see in the u tub videos.
So time to move along.  Q2 G = 0
Thanks for the comments

[Phend]

Back to this schematic...
There should be a 0.47 uF decouple cap between Level out and Pin 5 on IC1b.
Is this correct to do ?
Thanks

[GGBB]

Back to this schematic...
There should be a 0.47 uF decouple cap between Level out and Pin 5 on IC1b.
Is this correct to do ?
Thanks

Yes. DC from the IC1b bias supply needs to be blocked from reaching the anode of D1.

[Phend]

Thanks much GGBB

[PRR]

0.47 uF decouple cap between Level out and Pin 5 on IC1b.

Between Level Out and the bias divider (before pin 5).

[Phend]

Got it, thanks prr

[Rob Strand]

For instance: mine (GGG)

Q1 G  2.6 (2.4)
Q1 S  4.5 (4.0)
Q1 D  9.4 (8.8 ) battery
Q2 G  0.0 (0.6)  ??
Q2 S  2.6 (2.6)
Q2 D  2.6 (2.1 to 2.6)

0.6V on the gate of Q2 is wrong. (for the original schematic in the first post.)
I think when GGG measured it the noise/buzz from the guitar was affecting the results.
If you short the input so there's no crap getting into the audio path the gate of Q2 should read 0V,
which agrees with your measurement. (At least turn the guitar volume down to zero.)


FWIW, your other voltages don't look far off normal.  I haven't check what the expected voltage for a 2N5458 as opposed to a 2N5457.

[Phend]

Thanks Rob,  I battled that for days, now that I am making another your observation will really help. Thank you much.

On another note, about that capacitor, prr showed an electrolytic. In "general" I have three, ceramic, film and electro. What's the difference in this particular application.
Thanks in advance for any comments on caps usage.

[Rob Strand]

Thanks Rob,  I battled that for days, now that I am making another your observation will really help. Thank you much.

On another note, about that capacitor, prr showed an electrolytic. In "general" I have three, ceramic, film and electro. What's the difference in this particular application.
Thanks in advance for any comments on caps usage

It's electrolytic because of the size.   A film would be better bit its bigger unless you use small block package films.  Ceramics probably best left out of the audio path.

I'd be tempted to change the 2x330k's for 2x1M and then use a 100nF film.

[Phend]

So having this compressor built in an unethical "breadbox", I was able to easily change out the 330K resistors and change the capacitor. First not changing anything it works very well. The 1M swap made no noticeable sonic difference, to my ears anyway. Any difference was swapping the caps from 104 to 474, I liked the 474 best and the electro 474 over the ceramic 474.
Different thing, (I need to take better notes) I see I put a 2K2 resistor from pin 3 on the Level pot to ground, I lifted it and the volume increased some, so, guessing that is why I put it there in the first place. All that said, the orange squeezer works great after many hours, the cows finally did come home.

[Rob Strand]

So having this compressor built in an unethical "breadbox", I was able to easily change out the 330K resistors and change the capacitor. First not changing anything it works very well. The 1M swap made no noticeable sonic difference, to my ears anyway. Any difference was swapping the caps from 104 to 474, I liked the 474 best and the electro 474 over the ceramic 474.

I'm surprised you can hear the difference between the 104 and the 474 with the 1M resistors in there.

Different thing, (I need to take better notes) I see I put a 2K2 resistor from pin 3 on the Level pot to ground, I lifted it and the volume increased some, so, guessing that is why I put it there in the first place. All that said, the orange squeezer works great after many hours, the cows finally did come home.

A 2k2 will drop the gain a lot.   It increase the amount bright boost *but* without changing the cap to compensate the bright frequencies will get pushed up to higher frequencies so only changing the 2k2 might sound like less bright boost.

Another way to get more bright boost is to increase R18.   In this case you might need to decrease the cap to keep the bright frequencies the same.

In both of these case if you go for more bright boost you will need to increase R18 to compensate.

One thing about this variant of the pedal is C8 and C11 are quite large.  As is they are *just* rolling-off the highs.  Probably better to decrease by a factor of 1.3 (upto 2.0).    The reason I mention this is increasing R18 will make the treble cut worse, a smaller C11 value would prevent that.

With without playing with the resistors you can tweak the cap value to tune the frequencies where the bright boss operates.    This is very much a matter of taste.   Some Boss compressors have a bright control but they operate slightly different.  The Boss limiters use a different method again.
 

[Phend]

Rob, that was with the 330K where I could hear a difference. Sorry for not being more clear.
On my Range Master build I made C1 selectable,  472 473 474, this is a great mod, probability to any C1.
Realize this OS cap isn't C1, it's Cx.
On my new built, in process, I will look more at the bright area, I didn't include the bright on the old one, no room in the box.

[Phend]

Hacked my way thru this, the snag being the Gain control did nothing, the Bright control did nothing.
So to begin with I removed C9 from Bright so as to disconnect it from the effect.
On the Gain section I removed R10 and C5 and put them (new) on a small BB.
On my circuit board I had R10 in front of P1, ie P1 connected to C5. Did not work.
Why? A loose connection? I measured R10 and C5 after taking them out OK.
Wired up the test BB with R10 and C5 in the "correct" orientation and vollla it worked.
So the Gain is working in the box. (Can't believe it matters which side of a pot a resistor needs to be)
For the Bright section I was able to tack different values on the circuit and ended up with a 2.2uF ceramic. (My liking anyway.)
You have to know what "compression" sounds like to adjust Bias R7 trim.
The DMM can't hear anything so you can twiddle with Jfet source voltages till your thumb falls off.
The trick, AT least I believe, it to adjust trim until the effect farts out or goes ded.
Then slowly turn it up and you will hear the sound "returning".
Not much further (depending on your trim sensitivity) you will find a good compression spot.
Well time to add the LED.
Hope this helps anyone new to the Orange Squeezer.

Me       (hair) v

[sinthmart]

if 5484 were purchased on aliexpress. then even with the marking 5484 it may be field, but not 5484 at all.
there are no real ones anymore. only fakes. (but real smds seem to still be available for purchase)