OT...The Clone Issue?

[GuitarLord5000]

Recent topics on this forum and others I've visited have left questions in my mind.  What is the issue/feeling about people that "clone" circuits?  I've seen a few posts that seem to show a disaffection towards people that emulate others' circuits.  Personally, I've 'cloned' the NPN boost circuit from this very forum.  (Thanks BTW...awesome effect!)  I would go as far as to say that most of the people in the DIY hobby have cloned circuits many times before, as it is THE best way to learn.  What are your thoughts?

[MarkB]

I'm with you...
I cloned a fuzzface and a dist+ because I wanted those 2 tones...
so far - I'm still building clones because I haven't exhausted the pedals that I want for my 'tonal palette' yet..  

..and the fact that I'm still WAY too much of a noob to really design anything worthwhile yet.. but I will eventually.
"-)

[computerjones]

i think the npn boost is not a manufactured circuit, therefore not fitting with what i would describe as a "clone", that is, making an exact copy(or very similar) of a manufactured effect.  i think the dislike of this approach is that people demand that their circuit be to the exact spec's of the "original" regardless of the sound.  alternatively, there are some who want the best sound out of their creation often citing many upgrades and mods to adjust to taste.  hope that helps... somehow...

[george]

I think the disaffection in this forum has been expressed towards certain commercial "boutique" pedal builders who clone famous effects, then charge apparently exorbitant amounts for something that wasn't their original design.

Part of the disaffection arises from the electronics savvy of contributors to this forum.  They know that some clones could be DIY'd for a fraction of the cost of what the boutique builders are charging.

Another thing at issue is someone attempting to reverse engineer something that is original *and* in current commercial production; and/or where the designer has expressly indicated on this forum that they do not wish to have the schematic of their original work published.

However I don't think anyone here has a problem with cloning something for your own personal use - if there's a schematic out there in the public domain and it's not in current commercial production then you are not denying a designer or company their rightful returns.  I think this would also cover "reissues" like MXR and EH because in this case it is not the original company building them, also because the original company went out of business their claim on the intellectual company has lapsed.

All of this has been covered previously by others much more versed in IP and ethics than myself ...

I might add that cloning also gives you the opportunity to mod a circuit like a distortion+ or a tube screamer etc to your taste.  If you had an original of one of these pedals you definitely wouldn't want to do that (if you wanted to sell it for what you paid for it)!

[GuitarLord5000]

OK, now that makes sense.  I was wondering if the dislike was only for those who manufactured copies to sale, or to anyone who has ever made a clone of a circuit.  As I said before, it's a great way to learn.  With the NPN Boost under my belt, and a LOT of other effects breadboarded, I know plenty more than I did just 2 months ago.  But there is so much more to learn.

[Ed G.]

I think this would also cover "reissues" like MXR and EH because in this case it is not the original company building them, also because the original company went out of business their claim on the intellectual company has lapsed.

You think? I would have believed that when Jim Dunlop bought the rights to the MXR, Rockman names, he also purchased the exclusive rights to the designs, intellectual property.

[Triffid]

Ya, I don't understand why people get upset about others selling cloned pedals, regardless of the price.  As long as those pedals aren't copyrighted by some other company (ie.. your not breaking the law), whats the big deal?  If you don't like the pedals, don't buy them.  One of the beauties of capitalism is demand will always end up ruling supply.  People will pay for a pedal what they think it is worth.  If someone feels that it is worth $160 for a sweet sounding fuzz face, then cudos the person who sold it.

BTW... I did buy a '69 (used for $90) before I got into DIY pedals.  I recently built a GE Fuzz Face that I feel sounds better (of course I'm bias), but I think DIYers are in the vast minority when it comes to guitar pedals.  Many guitarists don't have the time/energy/abililty to put into it.

[george]

You think? I would have believed that when Jim Dunlop bought the rights to the MXR, Rockman names, he also purchased the exclusive rights to the designs, intellectual property.

No doubt he did, but in the time between when the original companies went out of business, and him picking up the rights, no doubt some schematics went 'public domain'.  Once out there's no getting them back, especially when they hit the Internet ...  :twisted:

Also you have to remember that, a lot of circuit designs are extremely derivative not only of other guitar pedals but of generic circuit designs.  Wasn't the Fuzz Face originally based on some manufacturers application note?  Look at the Ibanez Tube Screamer and Boss Od-1 and SD-1, both basically the same circuit, or circuits using the same (probably unpatentable) principle? The same can be said for the Boss CS-1, MXR Dynacomp and Ross Compressor; MXR Distortion+, BOss DS-1, Proco Rat; etc etc

As I said b4 I'm sure a lot of this has been covered before, but it's sure fun talking about it :-)