Rat comparisons to Blackfire and Thunderchief

[YouAre]

Can i get a comparison between the Rat and the Blackfire, and the Rat and the Thunderchief?

[WGTP]

OK I'll bite.  I haven't built the TC yet, but I have a modded Rat and a BlackFire and if I couild only have one, I'd have to go with the BF.  It has such a nice, thick, rich HUMONGUOS(sp) tone to it.  That doesn't mean I don't like the Rat.  

[YouAre]

Is there anyway to mod a rat to get closer to a BF?

[petemoore]

I don't like doing direct comparisons, I end up saying alot of nothing, or feeling like I'm putting my foot in someone elses mouth.
 The Blackfire, with no crossing wires or fussy biasing, 472 degree kelvin gain, has a growing fan club.
 I haven't tried a Rat Lately, the 308 is a compensating OA, the tone knob IIRC on mine didn't exactly work that great, Rats...I don't remem seeing a Ratsound clip. Good distortion unit.
 I built a Thunder Chief last week, Sounds great, I did some mods, and haven't finished messing with that one.
 Ok if this is what you like...bang for buck, the Blackfire with Tone Control is going to be hard to beat.  I used a 750k Gain knob on this one and it Gains up Huge at less than half way...with Tone Control on the Beast, it becomes a well voiced, fairly variable [Fuzz to Heavy Dist. N/P] unit.
 I used AMZ TC [presence control in labs notebook]. The one with q 100k and 25k pot. Havent tried others.
 Someone mentioned a Marshall stack not needing gain recovery [the BF has alot of this Already].
 I perfed mine, and it's in a somewhat larger than RACO sized box.
 Killer Dist with tons "O Gain: Blackfire
 Regular heavy OD/Fuzz: RAT
 ThunderChief: Great Mild OD/BOOST at lower gain, to Fuzz tones ... havent' tried a Tonestack on it yet. The source caps make for nice 'Kick in the Pants' [more gain/more bass] Mod with a SPST...

[petemoore]

I'll go right to the chopping block and say NO again.
 Rat's. way diff than Blackfire.
 The Blackfire is different than anything else.
 Rat will do stuff the Blackfire won't, namely generic Fuzz Tones...generic is often a good thing. The Blackfire is more intense by a longshot.
 I would say build both [except for possible hair loss associated with limited Rat Production] and check em out.
 BTW one of my faves for OA dist is the SD-1.  But last night I built, debugged and finished wiring a Boss DS-1...right out of the gate it sounds strong, should do very well with a 'better' OA [I used a 741 I had].

[Jered]

Hi Pete, how's it going. I haven't been around for a few days so I must have missed it. What is "472 degree kelvin gain)?
 Thanks, Jered

[PB Wilson]

I think what Pete means is "F...ing HOT!" :twisted:

[swt]

what type of tone control do you guys prefer for the blackfire?.

[Joe Davisson]

For tone controls, I think either a standard passive 3-band works well, or a generic tone control (like that in a guitar).

A Rat gets distortion with diode clamps, while the Blackfire uses gain stages. Using gain stages sounds better through solid-state amps, but if you have a tube amp then there's more involved.

The Vulcan seems to be superior, and saves a couple of transistors. But I've only had it on the breadboard so far... I think I'll get a 2N3904 version going sometime, since the pedal shouldn't be quite as dependent on transistor gain. Depends on the noise factor, though.

-Joe

[swt]

AS a matter of fact Joe, you are right about ss vs tube amps and gain stages. With the black fire through my tube amps, i can still hear a little of edginess or raspiness due to the transistor stages. That's the main reason i was asking about tone stacks. I think some of that can be modeled to be quite good i certain situations. I'll experiment and let you know.
So...you think i should better build a vulcan for tubes?. Or maybe just fool around with fets or mosfets?.
Thanks for such unique and interesting circuits!!