forget about PnP. A cheaper, more DIY way...

[markr04]

Always wanting to be even more homebrew, with some research on the web and some experimenting, there's a way to make PCBs as accurate as PnP and at a fraction of the cost. It requires inexpensive photograph paper and is 100% consistent for me (so far). Is everyone already familiar with this technique, or shall I post the info?

[jimmy]

yeah, i know it  :wink:  post it anyway, theres probably alot of new DIYers that this info might be invaluable to. and it is very consistent.

cheers
Jim

[MarkB]

http://www.5bears.com/pcb.htm

That's the method I've used - works great!
"-)

[markr04]

95% of the info is in the link below. I'll give you my take on it, then try it yourself:

The paper needed is Staples brand photo paper (SKU in link). I paid $9.99 for 30 sheets. What is it, $2/sheet + $4.25 shipping *choke* at that the place I ain't gonna name?

I don't own a laser printer, so I had Staples print my PDFs on the spot for $.07/sheet. I coulda had them print without buying the package of paper, but the guy wasn't certain which brand they used (I'm not gonna experiment with paper brands).

Now an iron and a hard place to iron is needed. I slapped my old German textbook down on my ironing board (yes, I'm a bachelor who irons his clothes). Spend 30 seconds prepping the board, cut out the image, turn your iron on Jet Engine (linen/highest on mine) NO STEAM. The site says about 2-3 minutes, leaning on the iron pretty good, moving it around, etc. The paper sticks to the board once it's heated, so it's not gonna smudge on you. I did this and the paper turned a slight brownish and the traces showed through slightly. Drop in water, browse diystompboxes, revel in your thriftiness, and peel off the paper in about 10-15 min. Soak again if the next layer is still dry. Then remove the rest of it with some thumb pressure. Now etch as normal. Done.

May I make an appeal to you? Please stop using ferric chloride. It's very caustic on our environment and your own plumbing and whatnot. The Ammonium Persulphate and Sodium Persulphate products work like a charm. The sodium version is compatible with Sharpie/Etch Resist pens too. Both are compatible with plumbing, *steel*, plastic, glass, etc. With either, mix as little as needed. I have a kilo of it and I've not yet made a dent in it. Thanks for letting me preach.

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm


Please let us know how yours turn out.
Mark

[markr04]

http://www.5bears.com/pcb.htm

That's the method I've used - works great!
"-)

LOL! Same method, different paper. Great!

[markr04]

The sodium version is compatible with Sharpie/Etch Resist pens too.

Later: This is the first board I've used a Sharpie on as etch resist (to write the date on it). The Ammonium Persulphate is compatible with it as well.

[bobbletrox]

Yeah...I just use a paper template to drill the holes and then join the dots with an etch resistant pen and a ruler.  

I tried a sharpie with Ferric Chloride and it was a bit dodgy.

[Steben]

What about inerasable marker (that thick or not thick black thing).
I used to correct my circuits with it before etching. Worked fine, you know!
Maybe you can draw a complete circuit with it, like a treblebooster or so.

[Travis]

I've been using a glossy color photo stock made by Xerox.  No soaking needed.  I do take a bit more care in the peeling with the photo stock, generally using a pen/dowel to remove the paper evenly and slowly.

At 20-40 cents a sheet, it's a bit easier to swallow than PnP blue.

[markr04]

What about inerasable marker (that thick or not thick black thing).
I used to correct my circuits with it before etching. Worked fine, you know!
Maybe you can draw a complete circuit with it, like a treblebooster or so.

Yes, those work too. I call them Sharpies (the brand name). Electronics suppliers get them without the Sharpie logo, mark them up 300%, and call them Etch Resist pens.

[Mark Hammer]

I got into using photo paper in the spring.  It can work quite well, although I would caution potential users that it lacks the sort of resolution that PnP is capable of.  There are plenty of circuits where that isn't an issue, but there are plenty of layouts with thin traces, traces that run between IC pins, etc., that photo paper simply can't negotiate well.  My advice is to use photo paper for most of your boards, and save some PnP for those where you might expect to have to repair a lot of finer traces.

[STOMPmole]

I tried that method with the Staples paper and couldn't get the transfer to stick to the copper after trying two different irons???  Maybe it was the toner in the machine I used (Xerox).

I'll give my Staples a try for the printing as long as they're willing to use my supplied paper.

[Aharon]

SO  far I've heard of photo paper,waxed paper and the back of stickers working fine.
Transparencies work but they are expensive and you might as well use them with the photosensitive boards.

Aharon

[Paul Marossy]

I just print my layouts and run them thru a copier on the darkest setting. Then I slap that on top of a ready to etch PCB and iron away. It irons on, but most of the time, not really well. I just go over it all with a Sharpie. I have done every PCB that I have eched this way. It works and isn't too time consuming. PNP is probably the best way to go. I haven't actually ever used it, though...

[markr04]

I tried that method with the Staples paper and couldn't get the transfer to stick to the copper after trying two different irons???  Maybe it was the toner in the machine I used (Xerox).

I'll give my Staples a try for the printing as long as they're willing to use my supplied paper.

Hmm... Well, the reason laser printer toner works is because it's mostly made up of plastic. I don't know about photocopier toner... it doesn't have that laser-print shine (to my eyes anyway).

Staples used my paper without any fuss. Don't try to hand them anything with Press n Peel on it though. It can jam up a printer badly - and none of the printing places will touch it.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

the reason laser printer toner works is because it's mostly made up of plastic. I don't know about photocopier toner... it doesn't have that laser-print shine (to my eyes anyway).

Photocopiers & laser printers use the same principle, based on fusing some kind of plastic/resin tiny particles to the paper. But, the exact properties of the toner may vary between machines, which is another reason why everyone has a different opinion of how hot you have to set your iron for PnP and similar. Toner could vary in melting point, 'stickiness' with respect to various papers and plastics, even how well it sticks to PCB. Also different machines put a different amount of toner on the paper, some machines are adjustable (you don't want 'miser mode').

[STOMPmole]

FWIW I tried the 'toner' method with a different laser printer at Staples (they used Xerox and HP) and both machines worked fine.  I was able to transfer the toner using the iron-on  method and it had very good resolution.  The only thing I can think of is that the Xerox I 'borrowed' at work to do my prints (It actually was a PRINTER with copy features) has a crappy remanufactured toner cartridge that didn't work for this particular application (PCBs).

As for the sharpie pens...I use them with ferric chloride and have had great success.  I DID learn a lesson however; the "industrial" sharpie they sell as "chemical resistant" sucks royally as a resist pen.  The regular sharpie like you'd buy at an office supply store works MUCH better and is cheaper.

[markr04]

Glad it worked for you!

Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of myths born regarding toner "drying" time, etc. So, I recently made a photo essay which will be posted on my humble site this weekend. It should clear up a lot of the confusion surrounding this very simple procedure.

Mark