Boss Slowgear

[mrsage]

That was the main weakness of the noise gate that I once owned years ago. In spite of that, I still think it (the Gator) could be used in combination with a couple of things to get some really cool sounds.

In particular, the Slow Gear-type pedals sound really cool with delay added.

I had a clip a while ago where I copped the "With Or Without You" E-bow effect (on the intro) using the Guyatone SV-2 plus a delay pedal. Pretty cool.

[Mark Hammer]

Check out the "Echo Park" delay pedal in the new Line 6 pedal series ( http://www.line6.com/tonecore//echoPark.html ).  One of the settings provides a nifty Slow Gear plus delay effect (see Swell).

[Paul Marossy]

In particular, the Slow Gear-type pedals sound really cool with delay added.

Yeah, that was my initial thought, without hearing anything...

Check out the "Echo Park" delay pedal in the new Line 6 pedal series

Hmmm... that's interesting. I have a Boss DD-5 Digital Delay, and it happens to have a reverse-delay setting. Is that different than what the Boss Slow Gear does? I've goofed around with the reverse delay some, but I have the feeling that the Slow Gear sounds different, at least the echo part of it... (as in no echo)

[bass_econo]

I want that ECHO PARK PEDAL!

My evolution -

DM-3
RV-5
Dan-Echo

Echo Park (soon!)


LOL

[Paul Marossy]

Yeah, that Echo Park looks like a pretty cool one, don't it? (meaning it sounds pretty cool)

[Mark Hammer]

I have a Boss DD-5 Digital Delay, and it happens to have a reverse-delay setting. Is that different than what the Boss Slow Gear does? I've goofed around with the reverse delay some, but I have the feeling that the Slow Gear sounds different, at least the echo part of it... (as in no echo)

They WILL sound different.  The Slow Gear is essentially an automated version of a pinky finger volume control swell.  The DD-5 (or other) reverse feature does much more than that.  In principle, it would have to wait until you were done playing before it could play the entire sample back in reverse JUST LIKE TAPE, but of course it doesn't do that.  So I'm assuming there is some algorithm that plays back part of the sample in reverse.

A true reverse should mimic everything that normally happens to notes over time.  Let's trace it out.  Pick a note and hold it.  The volume declines at a certain rate after the initial transient, and so does the harmonic content.  As well, your fret finger tends to introduce a certain amount of finger vibrato over time since it can't stay perfectly steady for ever.  To mimic that in reverse, you'd need to have the volume increase and suddenly "snap shut", have the treble increase gradually with a sudden burst as it "snaps shut", and have the note get steadier in pitch over time.  To mimic actual playing, and the varying decay cycles of notes you let ring and others you mute, you'd need to be able to vary the rise time.

The nice thing about tape is that it doesn't need to know when the note "begins" to be able to do any of that.  Even the cleverest digital delay has to determine from where it should start playing in reverse order of sample, and that's a tall order.

Reverse-tape sounds are going to continue to be something we'll never nail quite perfectly in the no-tape domain for some time to come, at least not in any real-time manner that could be used for improvised live performance.

When I was a kid, I got a 3" reel-to-reel as a present, and could simply flip the tape reels over in a certain way and listen to things backwards.  Maybe the reason why I never felt compelled to take drugs in my youth was that I got to listen to Sgt. Pepper backwards.  I'm not sure anyone would want for a weirder experience than "Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds" in complete reverse.  Yep, on the train route of complete and total disorientation, that was my bus stop to get off at. :lol:

And yes, that whole Tone Core product line is pretty cool.  Some pedals more than others, but in general I expect it to give the recent Digitech X-series and some of the DSP-based Boss stuff a run for its money.  The "bias" setting on the tremolo pedal has a very nice amp-like vibe to it.

[Paul Marossy]

I thought the tap tempo on the tremolo was a really cool feature.

[bass_econo]

There's a tap tempo on the Echo PArk as well.  This makes me very interested.  Been so many times where on stage the tempo is increased or decreased and the delay makes me mad when it's off and sounds muddy....

I'm making my Christmas list now :twisted:

[puretube]

the big DIFF in backwards-tape is: not real time;
like the digidelay, the tape needs to know when you started playing -
it won`t play that stuff back, until your song`s finished and you reversed the reels.
A long loop digi-sampler could do that too: play guitar for 5 minutes, and then playback the complete track backwards.
to imitate the effect in almost real time, one has to decide, how long of a portion you want to record, and then playback reversed.
A good digital device  might do a good job on that, if it were
"program-sensitive" (recognize note-onsets/ends)...


btw: others have started doing drugs after hearing Sgt. Pepper backwards.... :cry:

[Mark Hammer]

Through a variety of means which I won't go into (more dumb luck than anything else), I actually *received* an Echo Park yesterday     , courtesy of the generosity of someone we all know and love (he has a "big" place in our hearts; say no more :wink: ).  It was waiting for me in a box that my wife signed for, and I spent the better (and I do mean *better*) part of the evening playing with it.

It was my first occasion to sit down and actually tinker with a digital reverse tape effect.  I might point out that the EP has included a very nice coloration switch that either gets you pretty much full bandwidth on the wet path ("digital"), a heavily lowpass filtered sound ("analog") or a slightly dirty and dark tone that gets progressively rounder ("tape").  So not only does it have a backwards sample option, but you can stick tape coloration on it too.  Whether you feel that "nails" it is a horse of a different colour, but the fact remains that you can at least bring it closer than most if not all other commercial products do.

The thing to remember about Slow Gear type boxes is that they have no presumptions about the order notes are played in.  It is the swelling volume they intend to mimic.  The swelling volume may be an intrinsic part of reverse tape sounds, but so is note order.  Digital boxes attempt to do the whole thing.

If you thought the tactics of spacing your notes to get a discernible swell for each one using a Slow Gear were tricky, wait until you work with a digital box.  Remember that tape just passes along as a continuous stream, kind of an infinite sample.  Where the to-be-reversed portion starts and ends is something you can arbitrarily assign, gven that it is inherently a POST_PRODUCTION effect.  Delay lines, in contrast, represent a finite sample, and when used to emulate tape reverse try to do something in real time gigging contexts that is normally ONLY a post-production effect.

Challenge number 1.  Where does to to-be-reversed phrase start?  Well, kiddies, it actually starts where it stops.  Huh?  Yes, the beginning of the sample to be reversed starts at the point where you stopped playing.  Okay, how does it know you've stopped playing?   It can "know" because of envelope detection but it can also know partly because you've run out of sample space/time, meaning that the delay time you set the unit for influences where the reverse effect starts or cuts in.  The phrase needs to be as long as the delay time, or else it starts to reverse from the wrong spot.

You can begin to see that you can't just step on the switch and improvise at will, because whatever you play has to be meticulously worked out to coincide with the heuristic used by the pedal to determine the starting point.  Of course, playing samples in a FIFO format, allows you to just keep playing away with much less planning because a forward sampling process never runs out of space the way a reverse one does.

Curious.  Not a flaw in the pedal, though.  Rather, a basic strategic problem in trying to make an effect that normally relies on an infinite sample stream act "normal" within the context of a limited sample stream.  There's some of that whack aspect of time-travel in there too.

In many respects, a pedal like the Slow Gear or Gator is better suited to gigging with a couple of beers in you.  Digital reverse, no matter who makes it, takes a clear head, and a self-discipline to play only what is planned.  Within those constraints, it can sound gorgeous.  I stuck my Foxx Tone Machine in front of it, and for a brief instant it was just me and Eddie Kramer at Electric Ladyland studios.  (Have you ever been?  Yes I have.  Not necessarily stoned, but, uh.....beautiful.)  If I had a through zero flanger, I may just have to quit my job, sell my house, ditch the family, and buy a VW bus on e-bay.

I don't intend this to be a commercial, but if you were wondering whether it was a good pedal and whether it is something you should ask Santa for, it is and you should.  A lotta pleasant surprises in there.

Whether its an EP or a DD-5, etc., I just have to wrap my head around that time-travel thing, though.  :lol: :?  :lol:  :?  :lol:

[Paul Marossy]

Thanks for the review on that Mark.  
How much are those Echo Parks going for anyhow?

[Mark Hammer]

http://www.musictoyz.com/guitar/pedals/line6tone.php

[Mark Hammer]

http://www.musictoyz.com/guitar/pedals/line6tone.php

[puretube]

If I had a through zero flanger, I may just have to quit my job, sell my house, ditch the family, and buy a VW bus on e-bay.

:lol:

I`ve not been to the "Ladyland" studio (only passed it with M.M. on our way for dinner...).

But: I can understand you, as I experienced a severe problem I`m suffering from lately:
3 songs had a big (role model) influence on my early "effects-feelings" :
White Room, Itchycoo Park, Who`s That Lady, and Disco Lady.

Not having had a proper HiFi at home over the last 15 years,
it occured yesterday, that I had my band`s very good (hi-fi) PA at home for  checking up, and had to put together some dance tracks for tomorrow`s big birthday party.
So I took the chance to listen to the Isley`s Lady a couple of times,
and guess what:
my all-time "phasing" favorite doesn`t please me as much anymore,
as it has done over the past 30 years,
just because I have had an overdose of (homegrown) TZF during the first quarter of this year....   :shock:

[bass_econo]

I never *receive* anything.  I guess it has something to do with luck...

On more than one instance has a person who claims to be able to see auras and such has said that I have bad karma.  Not that I believe in that sort of thing  :roll: