Power Soak

[petemoore]

A speaker cone is integral to coil alignment, unless you have a'nother way to keep the coil aligned...precisely...
 That's why I said for non re-design of the 'soak' component [the speaker coil] start with a heavy duty speaker [enough] and as small as possible, then just box it in.

[GFR]

Also the mass of the cone (plus the mass of the air it moves) and the stiffness of the cone suspension influence the electrical reactance of the speaker.

[Doug_H]

Resistive attenuators work pretty good for low-wattage amps. IME when I tried it, it added some midrange and rolled off the highs slightly, but not bad. A lot of the ax84 guys have been pleased with variable L-pads they get at Radio Shack (!) for their low power amps.

I'm not overly impressed with my mass motor anymore. It adds a high-freq component that is not there when I'm just running directly through my speaker. I've tried filtering it with a shunt cap but it doesn't remove the "fizz".

I'm also sorry to say that every attenuator is not as good as the real thing cranked so unfortunately that's what we need to deal with right now.

In some cases, the change might be for the better for some people, but the attenuator usually makes the amp less "alive".

That's pretty much where I'm at these days. After using an attenuator for a while I realized it just made my amp sound like a distortion box plugged into my SS amp which could easily be set to any pleasing volume level. May as well just use a pedal for "late night practicing" or whatever.

Lack of liveliness was definitely an issue with me. I couldn't get the feedback, blooms, responsiveness and etc that come naturally from moving some air in the room and cabinet resonances & so forth at low volume unless it was grossly distorted.

So the answer for me has been to try not to fall in love with 100W Marshalls (very difficult... :lol: ), and arrange my life in such a way that I can play my amp "opened up" much more often without causing undue stress in the household, hearing damage, etc (much easier... ).

Doug

[WGTP]

Fletcher-Munson Curves??? is that what they are called.  Basically your ears work different at 80db than at 110db.  The louder the sound, the flatter they hear.  At lower volume, they don't hear the lows and highs as well.  That is why your stereo has a LOUDNESS control to boost them.

I have often wondered if part of the whole 100w. marshal in a box problem is due partially due to this effect.  Even if accurately produced at 80db, it won't have the same "character"  The speakers and cabinet are doing all kinds of resonating and viberating with 100w going into it.  Plus you miss the whole "hair on you head and arms being blown back effect."  The physical impact, the smell, the electicity, the "Hammer of the Gods".

The sounds of things being driven beyond their original design limits  :shock:    :?  :cry:  :twisted:  :roll:  :?:  :idea:

[GFR]

A RC attenuator (no L).

http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat6631195.pdf

Less "exact" than a RLC load, but supposedly "better" than purely resistive. Also much easier to build (no inductors!).

[aron]

So the answer for me has been to try not to fall in love with 100W Marshalls (very difficult... ), and arrange my life in such a way that I can play my amp "opened up" much more often without causing undue stress in the household, hearing damage, etc (much easier...  ).

Yeah. I mean, even a 30 watter cranked up is SPOOKY LOUD!

but so alive.....

[petemoore]

Also the mass of the cone (plus the mass of the air it moves) and the stiffness of the cone suspension influence the electrical reactance of the speaker.

Good point, and a hard to get around...the air in the cab or around the speaker, it's mass and kinetic energy influencing what gets 'pulled' on and how much and when...I'm sure 'digiguy' [my apologies if you're using that handle] is studying how to incorporate this into his latest cab sim design marketing.
 Make a mass attenuator with long folded tubes connected/sealed to both sides of the driver...bigger, messier...
 Which IMO brings us back to the 'other' 'ugliness in front of the cab' technique....which of course could easily be made to look pretty or high tech. It only has the advantages of being too easy, very effective, doesn't damage anything, does what you want it to on stage, too cheep, could be made to be fairly light and compact, and is 'funny' looking or 'unusual', and allow for cabinet timbre effect to be implimented. IOW's they Work great/look silly. [Will defeat the projection 'scooting' off the front of the elevated stage and directly Into the perciever's ear...which is good or bad, probably very good].
 They make the soundman   .
 This makes them 'show' as less popular among guitarists...only once have I seen these used.
 Make your naught y :twisted: amp enclosure stand facing into the corner

[Doug_H]

Yeah. I mean, even a 30 watter cranked up is SPOOKY LOUD!

Yeah, until you start playing with my drummer... Then nothing seems as loud... :lol:  :lol:

Doug

[petemoore]

My favorite rant.
 soundman mix rules:
 Drummers are allowed to cheat in the mix because they have no volume control, and for some reason [probably becuase they help allow the PA to have an effect you just can't get at home] drummers and soundmen have a 'special' arrangement.
 Guitar players OTH have the ability to say screw it, I'm gonna be as loud as the drummer.
 "tapping drummers with smaller sets are quite different that drummers with large sets, and hit lots of drums hard and get them resonating loudly.

[Doug_H]

We detour the whole sound man problem by not having one, for rehearsal anyway... Our keyboardist has a couple powered monitors that do the job for the keys and vocals.

Doug

[formerMember1]

Yeah, i used to play through this little 5 watt amp.  If i was going to a club and jumping in at a bands intermission, i would have them mike the amp.  They would laugh there heads off.  But after i played they all wanted to know where they  could get that "little amp"

The places were fairly big,(for a club) maybe 800-1200 people could fit in their...

5watts of power tube distortion with a boost or overdrive pedal in the front end, is too loud for bedroom practice!!(unless you live by yourself and have no close neighbors:wink: )

But then again, if you live by yourself, what are you doin playin a "little" amp for?!
Bring out the super leads!!

It may sound funny but i never played a Fender Twin, or bassman.  I hear they are great.

As far as power "soak".   I heard Marshall Super Leads run with :
Marshall Power Brakes,
HotPlates,
Variac,
(Master Volume Mods)

I never ever liked ANY of them.  

I know a band that uses a 100watt PLexi from 68 in a master and slave combination. They use a valvestate Marshall run into it.  It keeps the volume down.  I still like power tube sound, cranked like everybody else :wink:

good luck....

[petemoore]

Extra junk and stuff to mess with that wastes the power you went to such great lengths to get...speaker damping is cool, makes your big amp you're used to sound smaller {quote}. Just my 2b.uk opinion.
 Introducing complexity unnecesarily raises the chances for error.

[Dave_B]

I would guess that the Firefly with an L-Pad is good alternative assuming you like the sound.  I didn't notice it being mentioned in this thread.

[joegagan]

warning about the Sholz power soaks.
A friend of mine kept frying components ( sorry can't remember which ones )using a sholz soak on numerous fender tube amps, til he figured out it was the soak that was doing the damage.


I used an altair PW5 from the 70s for years on dozens of amps-all major brands and types, never fried anything.

I also built an ISO cab in the 90s. It was very cool, I just mounted an SM58 in there and used it for recording and practicing.

I also used a simple large resistor attenuator from a home stereo impednnace matcher thing. With a 50w marshall clone, it gave a very interesting distortion, unlike any pedal I have ever heard. i liked .

[petemoore]

I also used a simple large resistor attenuator from a home stereo impednnace matcher thing. With a 50w marshall clone, it gave a very interesting distortion, unlike any pedal I have ever heard. i liked
 Well that's a good one, did you just mount the resistor in a amp or cabinet with a switch?
 I suppose for safety's sake you could calc the current across that resistor to tell how much frying potential you have introduced by the amp loading...?
 I see 1/4'' phone plug/jacks as weak links, judgeing statistically that is, it's nice to improve the continuity of amp output/speaker to speaker wire standards, but I use the factory connectors because they've worked most of the time and are so convenient.
the
Odd connector cable you forgot is no fun at all.