fuzz face with wah

[emerswin]

Hi,
I'm sure this must have been covered but couldn't find what I needed by doing a search. I have a fulltone wah and a homemade GE fuzz face made from the GGG site. They don't like each other when running them together.  I would like to run the wah first and then the fuzz face afterword, ala Jimi. Is there a mod to get these two singin' together in perfect harmony?

[formerMember1]

You want an output buffer installed in the wah.

http://fuzzcentral.tripod.com/mccoy.html

read vox wah and axis wah.

The buffer is turned on when the wah is on, so it wahs with fuzzface, when is wah off buffer is off, so fuzzface sounds nice.

Do you have a Boss or buffered pedal?  put it between the wah and fuzzface, it should wah, except the fuzzface won't sound the same when used alone cuz the buffer "hides" the guitars impedance, which is what makes a fuzzface cleanup and sound good.

[markphaser]

an output buffer installed in the wah.


Why put a output buffer in a wah?

If the Fuzzface input impedance is 1K does the output buffer match the impedances?

I would think putting a output buffer on the output of a wah would overload the input of the faceface

[Ben N]

Markphaser, you are confusing volage with current.  A buffer by definition doesn' increase voltage (which we typically equate with drive); ideally, a buffer should have a volage gain of one, meaning unity.  typically, many (all?) follower-type buffers acually have a gain of slight less than one, so you aren't going to overdrive anything just because you added a buffer.  You will, however, lower the output impedance of the wah to the point where the low input impedance of the fuzz doesn't just such the wah effect away; or to put it another way, the buffer will provide enough current so the wah doesn't get swallowed up in the fuzz input.

Or at least that is how I understand it.  Now maybe someone who knows what they are talking about can jump in. 

Ben

[markphaser]

So the buffer keeps the wah's output voltage the same but increases the wahs output current?

So if the fuzz faces input impedance is 1K then the buffer would make the wahs' output impedance 1K to match the outputs and inputs?

[Ben N]

Well, not necessarily matched--the output impedance of the buffer is a function of the buffer itself, but in any event considerably lower than the unbuffered wah output, and therefore better able to contend with the low input impedance of the fuzz.  Or you could look at it as the buffer giving the fuzz a higher input impedance, in effect, the better to contend with the low output impedance of the wah.  There is a faq on impedance around somewhere (here? GEO?), and the subject has been discussed lots of times, which can surely explain this better than me, so I suggest doing searches both of this forum and Google to get the real deal.

Ben

[Steben]

Or you could look at it as the buffer giving the fuzz a higher input impedance

That's how I would look at it!

I would think putting a output buffer on the output of a wah would overload the input of the faceface

funny: faceface?
serious: In spite of what ben explains, which is partially true, a buffer indeed can overload a following "amplifier"(which the fuzzface is in electronic terms) as if it had more than unity gain. That's because without a buffer you have high output impedance going into low impedance, resulting in loss of treble but also in amplitude anyway. With a buffer you get a lower output impedance, resulting in less loss all the way, including amplitude. We all know you get enormous (sometimes obnoxious) treblish gain and sustain with a simple buffer into a fuzz face.
In a way all amplifiers have gain, including a buffer, but in a buffer it is current gain, which means it can influence voltage gain as long as the following amplifier can be influenced. If a fuzz face would have high input impedance an extra buffer would make no difference in resulting gain. Can you follow?
Low input impedance is like a low strength spring, lots of the weight going down but not all. High output impedance is a heavy weight. With a buffer you lower the weight or strengthen the spring, according to your way of looking at it.
It is clear that a very strong spring (if a FF had a high input impedance...) doesn't care whether it is a light weight or a little heavier one. A soft spring (FF) cares a lot.

All of this results in the fact a buffer in front of the wah (input buffer) doesn't sound pleasant and usually overloads the wah itself (not because the buffer has gain, because it doesn't allow the loss, you see).