Beatles "Birthday" what's that effect in the middle and at the very end?

[vanessa]

Beatles "Birthday" what's that effect on the piano in the middle and at the very end?

I have read that they mic'd a piano and ran it into a guitar amp. Is that just a wah-wah that's doing the effect? If so what kind?

It seems like it was this track that was the inspiration to ZVex's Ooh Wah. Z give us the 411.

[Mark Hammer]

It is a piano, desperately in need of a tuning.  Doesn't have to be a wah.  Can easily be a swept midrange control on the mixing board.  In fact, I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that's what it is, since there is no drastic absence of top or bottom in the passage, merely a shift in accentuation.  The creative use of parametric and semi-parametric (no Q control, but variable centre-frequency in addition to cut boost) equalizers in post-production has been known for a long time.  Sounds to me like this one involved a couple of db of midrange boost applied and the midrange frequency swept up and down manually.

[vanessa]

Wow, if they did that in a way they were trying to make the board sound like a super funky wah-wah. Very cool indeed.

With all this new technology that makes our lives so much easier in the studio (and life in general) I think we're missing a lot of the creativity that can be explored if we had less to work with. I've often thought about how cool it would be to pick a year say 1973 and only allow (for the most part) instruments and recording techniques from that period and before. Mix it down to state of the art digital and see how it fairs up against all this new "more is better" stuff. Of course I'm not talking about recording a 70's or 60's tribute band. I mean like you take a band like The Killers or someone along those lines. A band that a modern producer would say "let's produce the hell out of this!”

[MartyB]

I bet Joe Gagan's Freeper could do it.  At least part of the Freeper pot's sweep is in that 'vowel' range.  Taht piano sounds like a rinky-tinky upright , slightly de-tuned like Mark said.

[Pedal love]

Wow, if they did that in a way they were trying to make the board sound like a super funky wah-wah. Very cool indeed.

With all this new technology that makes our lives so much easier in the studio (and life in general) I think we're missing a lot of the creativity that can be explored if we had less to work with. I've often thought about how cool it would be to pick a year say 1973 and only allow (for the most part) instruments and recording techniques from that period and before. Mix it down to state of the art digital and see how it fairs up against all this new "more is better" stuff. Of course I'm not talking about recording a 70's or 60's tribute band. I mean like you take a band like The Killers or someone along those lines. A band that a modern producer would say "let's produce the hell out of this!”

It  might end up exactly the same as it is.pl

[gez]

A few years ago the BBC did a series of radio interviews with George Martin and I wish I'd kept them.  He talked about his whole career (not just Beatles) and described how they got various effects on recordings.

One thing the Beatles did (though more in the early days it seems) was play the piano parts an octave lower then double the speed of the tape on play back to bring the pitch up again.  The sound was fuller as there were more harmonics.

Bugger all to do with Birthday, just thought I'd mention it.  Inspirational man Mr Martin...

[H S]

One thing the Beatles did (though more in the early days it seems) was play the piano parts an octave lower then double the speed of the tape on play back to bring the pitch up again.  The sound was fuller as there were more harmonics.

That's how they did the "harpsicord" bridge on "In My Life."

[Mark Hammer]

All hail Les Paul who invented that several decades earlier.  The unearthly guitars on many of the recordings with Mary Ford were initially tracked at a different speed, then mixed in at a faster speed, which changed not only the pitch but the envelope and especially the attack portion.

Although I don't doubt the inventiveness of the four mop tops with Sir George at the helm, that harpsichord sounds VERY much like a harpsichord and not like a speed-altered piano to my ears.  They WERE experimenting with nonobvious instruments at that point in their recording career, including the sitar on the very same album (on Norwegian Wood).  My money's on the harpsichord.

[bioroids]

I read in several interviews it was a speeded up piano (the In My Life solo). Sounds just like that to me.
About the "Birthday" piano, I always thought it was some kind of organ.

Luck

Miguel

[vanessa]

I read in several interviews it was a speeded up piano (the In My Life solo). Sounds just like that to me.
About the "Birthday" piano, I always thought it was some kind of organ.

Luck

Miguel

I always thought it was an organ too. After I read those notes about the sessions I listened to it again and yes it does sound like an upright a little out of tune run into an amp.

Here's another one, listen to 'Don't Pass Me By' off the White Album. I always thought that was an organ too. Like a big ol' theater organ. Nope listen to it closer. It's also an upright (most likely the same one from birthday) ran into a Leslie possibly then mic'd into that same amp to get the distortion. Real cool stuff.

[Dave_B]

According to the Recording Sessions and Chronicle books:
"The recordings began on four-track but were transferred across to eight-track to accomidate all the overdubs and instruments which, for the record, were: drums, lead guitar, bass guitar, tamborine, piano, handclaps (helped out by Mal Evans), the backing vocals (helped out by Yoko and Pattie) and the lead vocal, predominately Paul but joined on occasions by John."

It doesn't go into any detail regarding the piano, but the cool thing to me was to read that the song was written, recorded, and mixed in one day, Sept 18th, 1968.  And McCartney took a break to watch a movie.     The only spent 30 minutes on the original mono mix, so what ever they did, they didn't have time to give it a lot of thought. 

[gez]

I posted this in the Lounge but it sank without trace.  An hour long interview - the 'Wenner Tapes' - with Lennon recorded in 1970 for Rolling Stone.  Some really bitter stuff, but fascinating! 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/noscript.shtml?/radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/archivehour

Get it while you can (the link will probably only be there for a few more days)

[Steben]

If you listen to Deserted Cities of the Heart (Cream) and Burning of the Midnight Lamp (Hendrix Experience), two of the many examples, you also notice double speed mandolin-like tricks. I guess the "creativity" they performed wasn't any bigger than now, since they all used the contemporary techniques at the same time. If Hendrix was still around don't be shocked too much to see him jumping like a maniac on the Variax and computer effects!

[Dave_B]

I posted this in the Lounge but it sank without trace.  An hour long interview - the 'Wenner Tapes' - with Lennon recorded in 1970 for Rolling Stone.  Some really bitter stuff, but fascinating! 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/noscript.shtml?/radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/archivehour

Get it while you can (the link will probably only be there for a few more days)

Thanks gez!  I didn't see your post the first time.  The interview has also been posted on alt.binaries.beatles (300meg flac) and alt.binaries.sounds.radio.bbc (50meg mp3) for those who don't get to it in time (or want an easy way to podcast it).

[Dave_B]

By the way, within an hour of posting the message about the "Recording Sessions" book, I was in Borders Book store.  If you live in the States and want a copy, they appear to be blowing them out for $7.99US in the discounted book section.  I'm pretty sure I paid $45 or $50 for the hardback.  If you're a Beatlehead and/or a gearhead, you can't go wrong.

[bioroids]

By the way, within an hour of posting the message about the "Recording Sessions" book, I was in Borders Book store.  If you live in the States and want a copy, they appear to be blowing them out for $7.99US in the discounted book section.  I'm pretty sure I paid $45 or $50 for the hardback.  If you're a Beatlehead and/or a gearhead, you can't go wrong.

Is this the Mark Lewinshon book? I am a Beatle&Gearhead. Too bad I dont live in the  US, do they ship worldwide?

[Dave_B]

Is this the Mark Lewinshon book? I am a Beatle&Gearhead. Too bad I dont live in the  US, do they ship worldwide?

Yep, it's paperback version of the first one he did.  He came out with an expanded version a few years later (Chronicles), but most of the extra stuff had to do with other things on their schedule (not related to the recordings). 

Borders sells online through Amazon in the U.S.  I don't see the book listed on the U.S. site, but Amazon.UK has the hardcover for a great price:  http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0753711052/

[petemoore]

  would probably be cool but I couldn't then/can't get it to play.

[SonicVI]

It sounds more like it's switching between frequencies rather than sweeping, like maybe they have a multi-position switch for the center frequency and they're just turning the knob.   I think there's more than one piano playing also.   There's a new book coming out probably in the new year www.recordingthebeatles.com.  One of the authors is a friend of mine and he says it's almost done, just licensing issues left. It's gonna be a great book, and BIG.

[vanessa]

Although I don't doubt the inventiveness of the four mop tops with Sir George at the helm, that harpsichord sounds VERY much like a harpsichord and not like a speed-altered piano to my ears.  They WERE experimenting with nonobvious instruments at that point in their recording career, including the sitar on the very same album (on Norwegian Wood).  My money's on the harpsichord.

Hey Mark! There is a very interesting article in 'Guitar World Presents' (John Lennon) magazine this month with George Martin. He speaks about that part in the song 'In My Life'. It is indeed a piano. George Martin plays the piano part on to a slowed down tape machine. He said that his right hand piano technique was too slow for what they were after so he slowed down the tape to record and sped it up on play back. He said due to the pitch shift and the note decay it sounds like a harpsichord. It's a very interesting issue, and I thought I read everything on The Beatles.