A bassballs study (Some opinions based on my tests)

[Gabriel Simoes]

After reading and absorving so much from the comunity I think I can give some of what I got from a project most of the bass players love, the E.H. bassballs.

I used the clonewars bugs fixed project but the tropopiccione layout is verified (I've built this one too), and the board is smaller than the clonewars.
In the other side, clonewars project is just the original project, with an input buffer, so no true bypass, and the tropo is modified for true bypass, so that goes by your choice.

The biggest trouble you can face in this project is the choice of the buffer/envelope follower op amp.
I tried many, from the most common to some "exotic" ones and that's what I can tell you:
Most of the known and always used dual opamps WONT work.

Tl072/TL062: No balls.
RC4558/RC4559: No balls.
TLC2262/NE5532: You can get the effect but it sounds gatted and you have to play really strong. wont work with passive guitars for example.
MC1458/LM1458: Yeah, there you can see why the effectis loved my many bass players!

I got no noise with any of them, at least no noticiable noise in loud home practice use.

The filter opamp is not that critical but, even without theorical basis, my ears liked more the NE5532, do not ask me why hehehe...

About the envelope follower diode: I think it was Mark Hammer who told me maybe a GE diode could help me improve the effect when I was still trying the bassballbs with a TLC2262, but I could notice almost NO difference with any of the listed opamps. At least in the vocal mode (You can notice that the fuzz is a little more durt when you engage the GE diode (in my case a 1n60)).

About the filters trimpots: In my project I decided to use external pots to get some more versatility, but if I decided to rebuild it for sure I would change my decision.  Most of the configurations/combinations an unusable, with strange clicks and pops, a kind of phaser during the decay of the notes and not to mention an annoing hi frequency that give you the desire of throwing all your hardworkagainst the wall. So you can keep the filters inside the box and let the sensitivity control give you all the versatility you need.

In the end, thats it. I will post againt in this topic with some pictures of the finished build and I will keep refreshing the cis list. I'm not home right now so I don't have all the names in my head ok?
I hope this can help someone in the future, and maybe he wont spend all the time I did trying stuff and rebuilding boards thinking that the work got flaws ...
Thanks,
Gabriel

Interesting links:

http://www.elixant.com/~stompbox/smfforum/index.php?topic=35760.0
http://www.elixant.com/~stompbox/smfforum/index.php?topic=34913.0

[RickL]

I'm surprised that you were unhappy with panel mounted filter controls. I've built the BB twice (once with two extra filter sections) and I found the panel mount pots very useful. They're unusable at the extremes of rotation both directions but I've never experienced clicks, pops or any other extra noise. Pops and clicks sound like dirty or damaged pots or cold solder joints. Do you get the same results when adjusting the trimpots to different parts of their range?

I've also built it successfully using both layouts.

[Ry]

Very interesting!  Thanks for the post.  I bought a broken Bassballs off of ebay about 4 years ago.  I did a LOT of twiddling around with OP AMP types and diodes when I got it working.  I have to say that I totally agree with your conclusions.  The 1458 op amp is great in this circuit, GE diodes didn't make an impression on me, and I like the filter controls in the box.  I tuned them in to a spot where the pedal sounds like DOOM (or as one friend said, like his ex girlfriend...I built him a clone after he heard it) with a really great warbly decay.  I would be afraid of losing that setting if the pots were externally mounted.

Ry

[Gabriel Simoes]

All my pots are ok, but to me most of the combinations between filters sound unuseful ...
About the clicks and pops. There are some filter combinations where you get clicks and pops when you play from silence. I used linear 10k pots as listed and just a small amout of rotation sounds usefull to ME.
I do agree that using them as real pots with external access give you a lot of versatility but to me it´s a pain in the ass to find the right spot every time I play with it because moving the pedal from a place to the other easily turn the knobs and you know that a small change in the filter pots in the right spot (there are 20% of the rotation that makes the biggest vocal difference) give you a hole new sound.
To me the only great thing of having external filter control is because I use different configs for vocal and fuzz.
Sorry for my bad english,
Gabriel Simões

[Mark Hammer]

If one was attempting to pass the *entire* signal, then clearly one would aim for an op-amp that has better audio properties.  Of course, if you're filtering the audio signal then "better" ones will have little audible effect.  In the case of the stock BB, the way the envelope follower is designed, it makes use of the quirks of the 1458.  The filter sections may show some benefit of swapping chips, but not the input/follower stage.  So your observations are not unexpected, and inject some pleasing realism into the sometimes overexuberant pursuit of chips that some can engage in sometimes.  Admittedly, sticking a 1458 in a pedal feels a bit like serving the parents of the girl you want to marry a bowl of corn flakes for supper - it just feels disturbingly insufficient  - but hey, if it works, it works, and I'd rather have a working pedal.

One of the things I found useful about the externally-mounted pots is that you can use the BB like a preset fixed filter.  Just turn the sensitivity down and move the filter knobs around.  A bit like having a dedicated, but stupid, graphic EQ pedal.

If you haven't played with the attack/decay characteristics at all, that provides some pleasing turf for experimentation.  Varying either or both provides a very different feel, and makes it more suitable for some songs than the stock version.

I have also used both Alex Petrini and Ambrose Chappel's layouts and Alex's is sdefinitely the more convenient with respect to suiting a broader range of boxes.  Thanks for the report.

[Pedro Freitas]

Why not upgrading the BB envelope generator with Dr. Quack's???
I've done it a few times and works with every other opamp all the time.
The component layout is about the same, one just has to update some  component values
and add the 10K/Led array.


Pedro

[Zero the hero]

Gabriel, thanks for your report!
I wish I had a "build report" section in my site, like Tonepad...
May I report your impressions on my Bassballs page, with credit to you?

[Gabriel Simoes]

yes zero, that would be great.