best dpdt footswitch

[scaesic]

whats a dpdt footswitch that won't die on me after a years worth of use?

[tennisdude]

carling? i got two for my A/B/Y box, and they are solid as heck 

[H S]

I've had some problems with the standard Carling 316 PP also.  What are the alternatives?

Also, Where do you put an alligator clip to protect it from soldering heat--does it help if the clip's on the end of the terminal away from the body of the switch?

[Speeddemon]

Alternatives:
Cliff DPDT (www.effectsconnection.com) for $3

Alpha DPDT (in Europe sold by www.musikding.de) for 4 euro (around $4.75)
The Alpha ones are really small, and are ideal for small (2" x 2") channelswitchers.
Both 'click' way lighter than the common blue 3PDT's, which I like! Almost like a momentary switch.

[Mark Hammer]

I strongly suggest that you folks, at some point, invest in taking a switch apart to see what's inside.  There isn't a heck of a lot.  That means there isn't a heck of a lot to go wrong.  What you will also see is that stompswitches can get gummed up inside and that they can also be rehabillitated, simply by application of appropriate cleaning or contact enhancing substances.  The tricky part is reassembling the switch, however as long as you've taken it apart the "right" way, putting it back together is no problem.  I'm happy to report that a couple of the budget X-wing types that I had written off as being bad switches have been brought into dependable service, simply by internal sprucing up.

I suppose there are other reasons to spring big money for switches that would never need maintenance, the same way there are reasons to buy pots you would never need to clean.  And if I was a touring musician who had neither the time nor the chops to do such maintenance, I suppose such extra shekels thrown at parts would more than pay for themselves.  It seems that switches are a bit like guitar necks.  They both "work" but more oney will get you something that feels good right out of the box, and does not require any further finishing.

[Speeddemon]

Hey Mark, I didn't imply that the Alpha's are so much better,
it's just that they're way smaller than the others, which I need a lot (since I use the 1590LB enclosures quite often, 2" x 2" ).
Oh, and they come standard with a good looking metal washer, instead of the white plastic one.
Makes my buddy Dirk_Hendrik happy. 

[H S]

Sometimes the Carling doesn't connect to either pole after a stomp--not bypass or effect.

I read elsewhere on this board that it might have something to do with soldering conditions?  The lubricant heats up and runs into the contacts?  Is that it?  Can that be fixed by repeated stomping?

[scaesic]

I strongly suggest that you folks, at some point, invest in taking a switch apart to see what's inside.  There isn't a heck of a lot.  That means there isn't a heck of a lot to go wrong.  What you will also see is that stompswitches can get gummed up inside and that they can also be rehabillitated, simply by application of appropriate cleaning or contact enhancing substances.  The tricky part is reassembling the switch, however as long as you've taken it apart the "right" way, putting it back together is no problem.  I'm happy to report that a couple of the budget X-wing types that I had written off as being bad switches have been brought into dependable service, simply by internal sprucing up.

I suppose there are other reasons to spring big money for switches that would never need maintenance, the same way there are reasons to buy pots you would never need to clean.  And if I was a touring musician who had neither the time nor the chops to do such maintenance, I suppose such extra shekels thrown at parts would more than pay for themselves.  It seems that switches are a bit like guitar necks.  They both "work" but more oney will get you something that feels good right out of the box, and does not require any further finishing.

i took a dead one apart, it involved one of the metal pokey bits. There are two, which push down on the see-saw-ee contacts. The metal pokey thing is covered in a plastic thing. The plastic thing extends the metal thing to make contact and throw the switch for each pole. In this case the plastic thing was tiny and brittle, and had a very minor snapping, meaning it was now useless. From the design i figured any other switches which use brittle plastic tips will do something similar over time.
i just wanted to know whats a good quality switch, which doesnt use such materials.

[Mark Hammer]

Sometimes the Carling doesn't connect to either pole after a stomp--not bypass or effect.

I read elsewhere on this board that it might have something to do with soldering conditions?  The lubricant heats up and runs into the contacts?  Is that it?  Can that be fixed by repeated stomping?

On some of the X-wings I've taken apart, that seems to be the source of the problem.  There is goop/lubricant inside and it seems to have obstructed the contacts.  I always wondered how that took place and was initially chalking it up to poor quality control during production, but the cheaper plastic housing of the X-wings (as opposed to the more thermally-conductive bakelite of the pricier types) may well be something that tends to direct the soldering heat to the inside contacts and cause lubricant flow that produces the impairment to contact.  The good news is you can remove the rocker contacts and simply wipe them with a Q-tip to restore conductivity/contact.  I suppose one could also make a point of heatsinking the solder lugs when soldering leads to them to avoid heat spreading to the inside.

On the other hand, scaesic is right about the breakage of the inner plastic pivots.  They CAN break, and when they do, you'll getthings where one set of contacts works and the other doesn't (i.e., a DPDT becomes a SPDT.  I was able to cannibalize the little black plastic pokey thing from one such switch and install it in another that had a similar problem, making one fully functional DPDT again, and one completely dead switch.  Conceivably, the inner mechanism of the more expensive switches is a little hardier.

[BDuguay]

The good about those switches, when the pokey thing does break, is that all the parts are floating around in side the switch. I've had the brokey pokey thing happen twice and both times I was able to actually repair the pokey bit. I just glued the tip back on, re-assembled the switch and Voila! Bernice was my cross dressing Uncle!
More on how to properly solder those suckers without melting them, when I get back from taking my daughter to Jr. K.
B.

[vanessa]

Did anyone figure out what where those big bulky switches that Pete Cornish uses?

[BDuguay]

I'm back.
K, for all who would like to know how to solder those switches without damaging them, here's what you do.
Strip the wire a 1/4" or so and tin it. Now make a 'hook' out of the tinned section. This is the most important part of the procedure, un-tinned wire will not allow you to make a rigid hook. Place the hook in the desired switch lug and pinch it tight in the lug with pliers. Before we go any further be sure the tip in your soldering iron is of a sufficient size to generate the heat required for soldering switch lugs. Now, place the tip of your iron so that it touches both the lug and the wire as close to the end of the lug that is furthest away from the swich body. Apply the solderquickly so the lug does not over heat. As soon as the solder flows throughout the wire to lug connection, remove the iron and solder at the same time. It works everytime.
Trust me on this, I have my soldering papers.
B.

[H S]

I strongly suggest that you folks, at some point, invest in taking a switch apart to see what's inside.  There isn't a heck of a lot.  That means there isn't a heck of a lot to go wrong.  What you will also see is that stompswitches can get gummed up inside and that they can also be rehabillitated, simply by application of appropriate cleaning or contact enhancing substances.  The tricky part is reassembling the switch, however as long as you've taken it apart the "right" way, putting it back together is no problem.  I'm happy to report that a couple of the budget X-wing types that I had written off as being bad switches have been brought into dependable service, simply by internal sprucing up.

Just took apart a Carling 316-B-PP.

I)  How would you ever get this back together?  I drilled out two little rivets to get it apart.

II)  I'm not seeing the parts that are described in this thread--instead I'm seeing a roller, like a white plastic dumbbell with a metal cap over each end, that rolls back and forth on the pole contacts to touch one pair of throw contacts or the other.

III)  This thing is loaded with grease.  If the grease is the problem, this one would never work!

IV)  I tried holding a soldering iron on one of the metal caps on the white plastic dumbell for 3-4 seconds and the plastic deformed.  Maybe this is the problem?  If it is, then the best way to solder is to solder the outside (throw) contacts when they're "off"; that is, not touching the white plastic dumbbell.  Use a ohmmeter to make sure they're not conducting to the middle (pole) contacts.  Then solder the middle (pole) contacts quickly, and with lots of switch snapping to keep that white plastic dumbbell thing moving.

[zachary vex]

carlings are junk.  i never use them anymore... i've had to replace more than 1000 of them over the years.  i have sent back a FULL GROCERY BAG of bad ones for them to examine... they've NEVER offered to replace ONE SINGLE UNIT even though the labor costs and switch costs associated with those failures are in the tens of thousands of dollars.  the problem is the old tooling that was sent to Mexico and never maintained or adjusted to make up for slop that's developed over the years.  one of the lugs gets very wiggly and stops making reliable contact eventually.  Teese tells me that over the years he's lost tens of thousands to carling dpdt switches as well.  keep in mind, none of these switches were ever really designed for "dry" (low-voltage audio) use except probably the Alpha.  they all were designed with "sparks" in mind... their contacts are created for handling heavy loads.

the blue 3pdt switches rock.  reliability is fantastic.  we have very very few failures.  next best is the chrome-plated NKK custom dpdt switch that i have made up (but you have to order 1000 minimum).  the Eaton switch that Pete Corning uses is excellent, has slight reliability problems (somtimes a part snaps inside and then the plunger stops clicking) but is probably the most solid-feeling switch i've ever used, except nowadays i could never use it because of space considerations!  the Alpha switch used by MXR is apparently unreliable in the long run.  it's pretty sad... i love Alpha, but  Twin Town Guitars tells me that switch is a dog.

[BDuguay]

I strongly suggest that you folks, at some point, invest in taking a switch apart to see what's inside.  There isn't a heck of a lot.  That means there isn't a heck of a lot to go wrong.  What you will also see is that stompswitches can get gummed up inside and that they can also be rehabillitated, simply by application of appropriate cleaning or contact enhancing substances.  The tricky part is reassembling the switch, however as long as you've taken it apart the "right" way, putting it back together is no problem.  I'm happy to report that a couple of the budget X-wing types that I had written off as being bad switches have been brought into dependable service, simply by internal sprucing up.

Just took apart a Carling 316-B-PP.

I)  How would you ever get this back together?  I drilled out two little rivets to get it apart.

II)  I'm not seeing the parts that are described in this thread--instead I'm seeing a roller, like a white plastic dumbbell with a metal cap over each end, that rolls back and forth on the pole contacts to touch one pair of throw contacts or the other.

III)  This thing is loaded with grease.  If the grease is the problem, this one would never work!

IV)  I tried holding a soldering iron on one of the metal caps on the white plastic dumbell for 3-4 seconds and the plastic deformed.  Maybe this is the problem?  If it is, then the best way to solder is to solder the outside (throw) contacts when they're "off"; that is, not touching the white plastic dumbbell.  Use a ohmmeter to make sure they're not conducting to the middle (pole) contacts.  Then solder the middle (pole) contacts quickly, and with lots of switch snapping to keep that white plastic dumbbell thing moving.

H S, any idea how old that switch was?
I'm wondering if it was a more recent one because the carling switches that I've taken apart use an all metal 'dumbell'.

[bioroids]

the blue 3pdt switches rock.  reliability is fantastic.  we have very very few failures.  next best is the chrome-plated NKK custom dpdt switch that i have made up (but you have to order 1000 minimum).  the Eaton switch that Pete Corning uses is excellent, has slight reliability problems (somtimes a part snaps inside and then the plunger stops clicking) but is probably the most solid-feeling switch i've ever used, except nowadays i could never use it because of space considerations!  the Alpha switch used by MXR is apparently unreliable in the long run.  it's pretty sad... i love Alpha, but  Twin Town Guitars tells me that switch is a dog.

Well that's great info, thanks! The blue 3pdt you mention are the ones Small Bear sells (made in Taiwan) and I think Aron too?
I suspected the Carlings were not as good as they were supposed to be. A lot of them come with wiggly contacts right from the bag! That can't be good.

Luck

Miguel

[Dave_B]

Thanks for that, Zachary.  So where does that leave us on momentary switches?  Carling is the only one I know of for the "heavy duty" stuff. 
Steve's actuators could be fashioned into something using mouse buttons, but I'm a lousy fabricator. 

[H S]

H S, any idea how old that switch was?
I'm wondering if it was a more recent one because the carling switches that I've taken apart use an all metal 'dumbell'.

It was a new switch, bought 1-2 months ago.  The dumbell can't be all metal, though, or the two poles would be shorted together.

[scaesic]

the blue 3pdt switches rock.  reliability is fantastic.  we have very very few failures.  next best is the chrome-plated NKK custom dpdt switch that i have made up (but you have to order 1000 minimum).  the Eaton switch that Pete Corning uses is excellent, has slight reliability problems (somtimes a part snaps inside and then the plunger stops clicking) b

i'll just have to wait for someone to buy 1000 and then sell them on then!