Bass trouble

[soggybag]

This may be a little OT. But, I was playing bass with some friends last night and I was noticing that my bass sounds much louder on some notes than others. This is very annoying. Do I need a compressor?

[loki]

No, you need a better bass 

seriously... i think uneven loudness is a common problem in most low-medium end basses, (that is if you're not spending 4 grand for one)...
of course a compressor would do wonders to even the dynamics of your playing, especially if you slap too

then if it's a major defect of the bass (some fret problems, etc..) that's another thing altogether
cheers!

[AL]

This seems to be a common problem. A compressor may help your situation. I've been debating on trying that myself - I have some friends who use them.

I don't, however, think this only occurs on low-medium end basses. I may be wrong - but your definition of low-medium end is obviously different than mine - $4K OUCH !! I do play bass in a working band and I have had this problem for some years. I was using a 1998  Fender American Jazz bass and have since "upgraded" to a 1975 Fender Jazz Bass - my rig is a 4 x 10" EV Bass Cabinet w/ an Ampeg SVT-III head (rackmount version). Not exactly low end. I would think the problem may be more evident on very low-end equipment but this is rock solid equipment.

I recently doubled-up equipment at a show and the other bass player has the same problems with his rig and mine. His bass is a Rickenbacker and he plays through a Behringer head into a 2 x 15" Acoustic cab. Again - good equipment - different equipment - same issues.

AL

[soggybag]

I have a Dean bass, it was about $300. So it's not an expensive instrument. It does play well, and the frets are fine. I'm using this 35watt SS fender bassman. Also not an expensive amp. And, not quite loud enough to keep up with a drummer I'm finding. But that's another problem.

I would guess the problem to be related to the pickups and their position. The bass plays well and it feels very consistant up and down the neck. But some strings at certain positions on the neck really jump out much more loudly. Usually it's the A string around the 3rd fret.

I was thinking it might have something to do with the pickup position and their relationship to certain notes as the string vibrates. I'm guessing they pick up the signal much more strongly at certain spots?

Idea! The bass has two pickups each with a volume control. I should test the loudness of the problem notes with each pickup. If it's a problem with the neck or the amp the pickups should not effect the problem much. If the pickups are the problem there should be a difference between the two. I think I was playing last night with both pickups full on.

[tazwolf]

i'm not a bass player as such but I do have a bass (samick and surprisingly it's ok for a junk bass - it says valley arts on the headstock and
it sounds better than it should).

I don't play live with the bass but I do record it a lot - and I always slap on loads of compresion - UA  1176 plugin and maybe even a limiter
afterwards. I think it's the nature of the beast - a good tube bass amp will compress the sound and even out the uneven volume response of
certain notes but that is also the same for guitar amps when cranked. I say compress - or even better limit.

Bass reproduction is where low cost really is noticable - and if you don't have the money for a Mesa boogie buster, swr redhead or ampeg nut crusher
tube amp stack (or so I've heard a fliptop B15) then I would try out a compressor.

BTW i am building a Flipster at the moment.

[scaesic]

isn't this a simple case of slanting your pickups more to the treble strings?

there's usually a screw on the topand bottom of a pickup, turn them so its further away from the bass strings/closer to the top strings.

[Mark Hammer]

So-called "wolftones" are a recurring problem in plenty of instruments.  There are lots of sources.  One is certainly resonances in the body of the instrument that favour some notes over others.  Mis-aligned pickups can be another source.  Another is resonances in the speaker and speaker cabinet that favour some notes over all others  To the extent that you describe the amp as being of modest quality, it way well be that the cab needs to be bigger, or sturdier, or both.

Keep in mind that what often makes a budget or mid-priced amp lower in cost is the things that the manufacturer can do to reduce building, packaging, and shipping costs.  My guess is that the cab you are using is smaller and lighter than it maybe ought to be for the job it is trying to do.  My suggestion would be to consider buying yourself some3/4" MDF and making yourself a cab for the very speaker in the amp currently.  A bit more cab volume mayu well bring out the best in the speaker itself.  Plus the lowering of the cab resonance (by increasing size and cubic volume) will give a solider tone and a little more perceptible output from the amp without increasing actual power.

Will a compressor help?  In this case, I doubt it.  If the differences in note volume are that robust, the compressor will also behave differently for some notes than for others, so you'll still hear differences.

before doin anything, though, you might want to bring your bass to a music store and try out a couple of amps to see if the wolftones heard on your rig are the same wolftones heard on other rigs.

[loki]

This seems to be a common problem. A compressor may help your situation. I've been debating on trying that myself - I have some friends who use them.

I don't, however, think this only occurs on low-medium end basses. I may be wrong - but your definition of low-medium end is obviously different than mine - $4K OUCH !! I do play bass in a working band and I have had this problem for some years. I was using a 1998  Fender American Jazz bass and have since "upgraded" to a 1975 Fender Jazz Bass - my rig is a 4 x 10" EV Bass Cabinet w/ an Ampeg SVT-III head (rackmount version). Not exactly low end. I would think the problem may be more evident on very low-end equipment but this is rock solid equipment.

I recently doubled-up equipment at a show and the other bass player has the same problems with his rig and mine. His bass is a Rickenbacker and he plays through a Behringer head into a 2 x 15" Acoustic cab. Again - good equipment - different equipment - same issues.

AL

That's exactly what i meant AL. fenders and rickies are not high end basses, though the sound you get out of vintage fenders is still unmatched, they're renowed for being far from perfectly built instruments (and that's why we all love'em )  even flea mentioned he's always had those problems with his stingrays (that's why he stopped recording with them after mother's milk).
I'm sure if you got a high end bass.. say, alembic, ritter, sadowsky, lakland, ken smith, etc... you wouldn't encounter the "wolftones" problem.
but that means a lot of money, and personally, even if i were a famous musician, i'd sure stick to my fender J whose every fret buzzes

[runmikeyrun]

I use an ampeg 8x10 and 2x15.  Each cab has certain resonant frequencies that make some notes louder.  The real secret is lots of distortion... i can fret notes without picking a string and have almost no change in volume.

Seriously, a compressor will help.  It could be lots of things, a cabinet that resonates at certain frequencies or the way the tone controls are set.  Some notes are just inherently stronger for bass regardless, try fretting at the 7th fret on the E string vs. the second fret on the A string... same note but the one on the E string always sounds stronger.  I don't know about a cheap bass doing it so to speak but again if there are resonant frequencies you're gonna get louder notes.  A compressor is going to help smooth all these things out, and if you want to use distortion that's good too, because distortion compresses any signal, but it will also help hide the louder notes too, the way it can hide a singer who's slightly off key...

[tiges_ tendres]

a guy shipped a bass through my shop here and was explaining to me how different parts of the body and neck of his basses were made from different kinds of wood to compensate for this and other bass related problems.

I however would much rather strap on a Bronco and live with it! but that doesn't answer your question!

[soggybag]

I was searching the talk bass forum. I found some information about wolf tones, but I'm not sure if this is the same problem. it was hard to think of terms to search for that covered my situation.

Alot of th talk seemed to be about cabinets and EQ. I think this will take some experimentation to figure out.

[markusw]

Maybe this explanation helps: http://www.acoustics.org/press/137th/fleischer.html

Markus

[MartyMart]

I have a couple of these "dead spots" on my deluxe P - Bass ( Jazz neck and extra jazz pickup on P-bass body )
Compression helps, as does a good "setup" in the first place, I guess a better instrument would also be
a benefit  !
Now I know where they are, I can adjust my dynamics at those points, fretting as cleanly as possible and
using a stronger "pick/Pluck" in those areas  .... works for me

MM.

[AL]

Now I know where they are, I can adjust my dynamics at those points, fretting as cleanly as possible and
using a stronger "pick/Pluck" in those areas  .... works for me

MM.

That's exactly what I do too. I usually pluck the strings around the middle pick-up - It's a Jazz bass and my thumb rests on the pick-up. But, if I need notes to be less "woofy" I move my hand closer to the bridge. That seems to be about the cheapest way to solve the problem. 

Loki - I sure hope an extra $3K solves the problem - I would assume it would. Wow that's pricey. I've never really looked into high end basses. There's just something about having my beat up Jazz that feels "right" (for lack of a better explanation). I think if I paid that much for a high end bass I would be afraid to take it out of the house. I just did a recording session with the '75 Jazz bass and ran it through a blackface Fender Dual Showman and it sounded fantastic. I wasn't expecting that.

AL

[scaesic]

So-called "wolftones" are a recurring problem in plenty of instruments.

hmmmmmmmmm

wolf notes are almost excusivley used to refer to hollow bodied stringed instruments. It's a consequence of the air resonances of the hollow box, if it is too close to other natural modes, say of the strings or wood.
It also produces a harsh timbre, not just loud.
I find it unlikely that the problem would be a wolf note on an electric bass, although i guess it is technically possible that a speaker cabinet may suffer from wolf notes. If one resonance (air in cab) crosses with one or several others, (bass/amp etc). This would acount for a number of notes sounding truly horrible and loud. It wouldn't be responsible for several notes sounding dead.
i'd be more enclined to check out the pickup heights/setup first, then eq, then speaker cab.

[Disco_Gee]

This may be a little OT. But, I was playing bass with some friends last night and I was noticing that my bass sounds much louder on some notes than others. This is very annoying. Do I need a compressor?

I think the problem may be partly you bass, but mostly your amp. Most small bass amps, particularly the cheaper ones, can be pretty inconsistent. Add to this the fact that different frequencies will be easier or harder to hear depending on your proximity to the amp. The result can be difficulty hearing certain notes.

I've got a stingray and it's very consistent across the whole fretboard. My first bass (an Ibanez) had a dead spot around the 5th fret of the E string. If you want to find out if it's your bass causing the problem, take it to a local music shop and pretent that you are interested in buying a good amp/speaker box rig. Try out some different combinations and see if you still get the same problem  (try some Ampeg and Eden gear). If you do, it's probably your bass. If you don't, it's your amp.