GCB-95 Bass response

[formerMember1]

formerMember1, I remember reading a thread you started a while ago when you were building a Clyde McCoy. Any useful tips about components etc? I think im essentially after the same sound you were.

I will tell you, and it is all true, not psychological etc,.. eveything was recorded, measured etc,...

Carbon comps,
fish caps, .22uf
polystyrene caps .010uf
Arielfx halo,
ProPot,
don't move the 1k5 at all,
only lower the 470ohm with the 5% tolerance of the carbon comp, don't go so low as some people go,(under 450 is way too low IMHO)
if you are using an arielfx halo, go with 68k Q resistor, that is just "magic", lower or higher just doesn't have it to me,..100k is good for clean vocal tones, but will be TOO sharp when used with a fuzz or something,
use a 4.0uf electro off mouser, not a 4.7uf like everyone else does.  Or you could use a 10uf and have it more vocal, sparkly, a 4.0uf will be more warm, vintage,...  (the electro messes with the Q)

bc109b NOS are best, bc108c are good for a warmer tone, don't use anything above 420hfe,
2n5172 are really thick and bassy, but the bc109b are more "british" sounding

buy at least 4 of each carbon comp and measure them all before you use them.

An output buffer will spread the midrange out, it really helps the propot from being bunched up,

also REMOVE the rubber stoppers, and adjust switch so that the switch is fully depressed and you still have a small amount of room until the enclosure hits the wah shell. 

REMOVE the felt and cut it in half thickness,... i removed it totally but might put half back, cuz when recording you hear the clank,...
Removing the rubber stoppers is NOT cheating, it will increase the travel of the wah pot,  (Jimi did this!!!, watch some concerts where the camera angle is below him, (woodstock/berkley rehearsal), and you will see no rubber stoppers!)
the switch will be activated easier too, so you will like the increased sweep, but might not like the switch feel,...
or you might like cutting the rubber off until only a small small amount is there, so you don't hear metal to metal noise when wahing,.

I didn't like the increased input cap, or sweep cap etc,..i think that is better suited if you have a fasel or Stack of dimes inductor.  I don't know.

the 100k vs 200k pot affects the length/spread.
a 100k will spread the midrange out, a 200k bunches some of it up.  a 200k might be more vocal, and the 100k will be a longer sweep.
the propot i like,  I did not like the fulltone or dunlop hotz potz I, II or whatever,....

experiment!

I tried WIma, orange drop, greenie mallory, sprague, and the only ones i like are a NOS fish cap, and a xicon styrene and castledine styrene for sweep, even though they both measure .010uf, the xicon and casteldine polystyrene caps are  different sounding,...

here is a pic of my wah



the next wah i am building i am going to try a stack of dimes for that thin vowelly clean tones,..George has some SOD for sale,
to measure inductance you need a DMM that measures mH/ henries.

(i am in the process of having  a halo custom wound for me, we will see what happens if it is an improvement upon the standard arielfx halo)
arielfx.com  has the halo,

[formerMember1]

if no one believes me about Carbon comps making a difference, then do this,

Use all metal film in your wah.
THen measure a carbon comp that measures 465-470ohm, then get a metal film that measures 465-470hm(they average 465 or 468ohms)
record with the metal film in, then swap(socket) with the carbon comp and record,  u will hear the difference with out recording, but listen back to the recording to analyze it more if you think it was psychological.

A boutique wah builder out there today, makes a clyde and uses carbon comp and then uses a 470ohm metal film for the bass resistor only, doing this will make the wah tighter and stronger, then having all carbon comp in the wah.  It seems the bass(470omh) is REALLY affected by a metal film R vs a carbon comp!!!!!

try it,...

to further test.

build the wah with all metal film and measure them,..
then swap all resistors out for carbon comp and measure them, and hear the vintage tone!

when combining things like this, it adds up to be big,..then add fish caps, and 4.0uf instead of 4.7uf and it adds up to be a GREAT improvement,

my wah sounds very close to Jimi's wah,...it still is not exactly what i want, but i think that has to do with the inductor differing from inductors back then.
that is why i am having one wound different.

i want a little bit more vowely midrange tone, a 100k propot would probably do that, along with a different inductor,...

[Paul Marossy]

Before you go nuts buying replacement parts try a 1k trim pot off Q1 to ground. This would replace the standard 510 ohm resistor. As this gets below 510 ohm you will notice a fatter bottom end. Too low of a value and the pedal will saturate to you have to tune it by ear. You could even find your sweet spot and remove the trim pot in favor of an equal valued fixed resistor.

Yeah, that's true - I forgot about that angle. Try that first. 

BTW, nice looking wah formerMember1.

[GBlekas]

I would just post everything formerMember1 has stated here and I agree with everything he has said.
Finally I found somebody as anal as I am with a wah. ( OK I am not including Geoffrey Teese here because his the wah Guru! )

It reminds me of Star Wars with GT as Yoda and then us as Luke Skywalker wanna bees.  LOL

What ever the order I would just listen to formerMember1 and call it a day. No need to spend the time when it's already been figured out.
Thanks formerMember1 and as alway nice hearing from you brother!

Regards,
George

www.PedalworX.com

[nero1985]

I actually used a 270ohms in place of the 470ohm with a 1k pot in series and when i used more resistance the wah gave me more bass which is what i liked the most about it

[bajaman]

Further to George and formerMember1s' very informative comments, I headed for the bench to tune my wah.
I bought a bunch of Fasel inductors of Aron last year - these ranged in inductance from 332mh to 655mh !!! ( red and yellow types ).
They also measured 20 ohms dc resistance - too low to be useful according to George, so I added two 10 ohm resistors in series, to bring the total resistance up to 40 ohms.
I placed a 68k damping resistor across the combined coil and series resistors. I made a 4 uf capacitor by placing a 3.3uf electro in parallel with a 0.68uf MKT polyester and inserted it in place of the 4.7uf capacitor originally fitted in the unit. I also changed both of the .22uf capacitors for MKT polyester types. Lastly, and in my view most importantly, I tuned the 655mh yellow fasel to the same frequency range, as if I was using an ideal 500mh coil and .01uf capacitor combination. This necessitated building a composite capacitor of 0.00794uf, which i constructed with a 0.0068uf MKT paralleled with a 0.0012uf MKT combination. When I plugged my guitar in and tested it, I was pleasantly surprised. Instead of the previously insipid wow wow sound  I now had for the first time a waaah waaah sound. Okay, I know I didn't use tropical fish caps or carbon comp resistors or ariel halo  inductors etc etc, but nonetheless I had a very even sweeping clear sounding wah wah pedal at last, without the muddy bootom end or the weak midrange and thin top end. So thank you George and formerMember1 once again for your invaluable observations, and I hope this post is of some inspiration to other forum members to tune their wahs for better sound.
Cheers
Steve

[Marra]

formerMember1, thats fantastic!

I realise it must have taken a lot of time and effort to work all that out, so I really appreciate you sharing it. (and your wah looks very nice, by the way.)

Out of interest, is this the only place to get tropical fish caps? http://www.classicfuzz.com/taktech.htm . Google seems to think so...

Ill definately try the 1K pot in series with the 270ohms before I do any buying/building.

Its funny how the best stuff to use is the oldest/least available. Why dont Vox/Dunlop/whoever start manufacturing/using these old components again in thier wahs? Surely theyd beat the competition hands-down? On second thought, theyre doing that already

There are a lot of ideas to try here. Ill let you know as soon as I get some time to try them all out. Hopefully others will find all this useful too.

[formerMember1]

Further to George and formerMember1s' very informative comments, I headed for the bench to tune my wah.
I bought a bunch of Fasel inductors of Aron last year - these ranged in inductance from 332mh to 655mh !!! ( red and yellow types ).
They also measured 20 ohms dc resistance - too low to be useful according to George, so I added two 10 ohm resistors in series, to bring the total resistance up to 40 ohms.
I placed a 68k damping resistor across the combined coil and series resistors. I made a 4 uf capacitor by placing a 3.3uf electro in parallel with a 0.68uf MKT polyester and inserted it in place of the 4.7uf capacitor originally fitted in the unit. I also changed both of the .22uf capacitors for MKT polyester types. Lastly, and in my view most importantly, I tuned the 655mh yellow fasel to the same frequency range, as if I was using an ideal 500mh coil and .01uf capacitor combination. This necessitated building a composite capacitor of 0.00794uf, which i constructed with a 0.0068uf MKT paralleled with a 0.0012uf MKT combination. When I plugged my guitar in and tested it, I was pleasantly surprised. Instead of the previously insipid wow wow sound  I now had for the first time a waaah waaah sound. Okay, I know I didn't use tropical fish caps or carbon comp resistors or ariel halo  inductors etc etc, but nonetheless I had a very even sweeping clear sounding wah wah pedal at last, without the muddy bootom end or the weak midrange and thin top end. So thank you George and formerMember1 once again for your invaluable observations, and I hope this post is of some inspiration to other forum members to tune their wahs for better sound.
Cheers
Steve

wow, alot of that is over my head.  You did a great job with the parts you had and that is really a true DIY'er!!!!
What pot are you using?
the reason i use the arielfx halo is it is handmade and tuned to the right values.  I wanted to try a yellow fasel becuase i know paul marrosy and fretwire said they were good, but they are too variable.  You could buy 2 yellow fasels and have two way different sounding inductors!!

I wanted to increase my inductor from 30ohms to 83ohms,..so you say just to put a 50ohm resistor in series?  I didn't know i could do that.
thanks!! 

formerMember1, thats fantastic!

I realise it must have taken a lot of time and effort to work all that out, so I really appreciate you sharing it. (and your wah looks very nice, by the way.)

Out of interest, is this the only place to get tropical fish caps? http://www.classicfuzz.com/taktech.htm . Google seems to think so...

Ill definately try the 1K pot in series with the 270ohms before I do any buying/building.

Its funny how the best stuff to use is the oldest/least available. Why dont Vox/Dunlop/whoever start manufacturing/using these old components again in thier wahs? Surely theyd beat the competition hands-down? On second thought, theyre doing that already

There are a lot of ideas to try here. Ill let you know as soon as I get some time to try them all out. Hopefully others will find all this useful too.

Alot of people tend to disagree.  They think i am spreading "mojo" or something.  I never tried those vintage parts becuase of everyone saying they were different.  After using all the components that everyone advised, (avx boxed, greenies, metal film resistors etc,) i hated the wah.  As soon as i started putting in there what the old wahs had, it improved WAY better.  Carbon comps do add a nice overall warmth to the wah tone, and not any noise more than metal film.  Maybe in a fuzzface or something, but not  a wah.

Importantly of all, do like bajaman did, Measure all your components!!  Or do like george said, find a wah you like, and lift them out and measure all their exact values,