Last version vero Roseyray ?

[hari]

to torchy..

I have a plan to build roseyray base on ur veroboard layout, but I would like to know wether its verified?
I am still newbie although I already join this forum long time ago, I hope veroboard can ease my project.

Is there anyone that already built Roseyray base on Torchy's veroboard layout? How it sound?

Thanks

[tungngruv]

I requested and built the Roseyray that Torchy drew up. There were a few problems with the layout. As he was kind enough to draw it up at my request, I traced it out according to Mark Hammers schematic and emailed Torchy about a few components not lining up (I think it was the led's). Anyway, after going through it 3 times, and Torchy being cool enough to change the layout each time I found something, I built it and it did not work. This was the only layout I built from Torchy that did not work BTW, and I built quite a few. The only Roseray that I built that worked perfectly was one I perfed up, using the layout for the Voodoo Labs Overdrive pedal, found in this forums "schematics" section. I used that layout and subbed the Roseyray's parts into it. I was so impressed with the tone I wrote and recorded a tune with it. I wish I could convince Mark Hammer to redraw the schematic with the added 1 uf caps that remove the motorboating sound. This is truly one awesome pedal the goes from standard OD to a really great sounding mid scooped lead tone. Listen to this:

http://www.tungngruv.com/sounds/11-Various%20_%204Zion.mp3

A friend of mine heard it, played it, borrowed it and now jokingly say's he won't give it back. He's a lot better than me so I'm not pushing to get it back just yet. Also, Mark Hammers Chaos pedal is awesome and I verified Torchy's layout for that pedal quite a while ago. It sounds pretty similar to the Roseray but not quite there. Chaos clips directly into soundcard:

http://www.tungngruv.com/sounds/17-Various%20_%20MHammerChaos1.mp3
http://www.tungngruv.com/sounds/18-Various%20_%20MHammerChaos2.mp3 

[tungngruv]

OK, I traced Torchy's layout to this pedal and everything checks out ok except one connection. From looking at the schematic, compared to Torchy's layout, I think R7 and R8 are switched but they are the same value. The 47K that connects to V+ on the schematic looks as though it should be going to pin 4 of the op amp (marked V+ on Marks schematic) but V+ is actually pin 8 of a dual op amp (like on Torchy's layout). Also, the Voodoo Labs OD, which Mark based this pedal from doesnt have the 47K to V+. I'm wondering if a person built this and left out R7 from Torchy's layout if it would work? I went through the entire schematic and Torchy's layout with a highlighter, side by side, one component and connection at a time and all seem correct except this connection (V+) . I remember building this layout and it did not work on a couple different attempts but that was due to a couple connections on the first couple of drafts being wrong. I am getting a hold of my friend tonight who has my working perf board original to check on this connection as the perf board version I made (based off of the Voodoo Lab OD that did work and did not have the 47k I'm talking about). This is too cool of a pedal to not be able to stripboard so if anyone see's something wrong or could verify the 47k resistor in question, it would be greatly appreciated.

[Mark Hammer]

That 47k resistor is simply part of the 47k/47k pair that provides the reference voltage (V+ / 2) feeding the 470k resistor on the input of the first stage.

There is no cap between the output of the first stage and the input of the second stage, which means that the Vref is "preserved" and fed to the 2nd stage intact.  Unfortunately, if you look at the original schem ( http://ampage.org/hammer/files/Roseyray.gif ) you'll see that the signal is not "obliged" to pass through a capacitor between the output of the 2nd stage and that 10k on the input of the second stage.  I gather that various caps to ground help in preventing the oscillation from getting completely out of hand, but there needs to be a cap between the 6k8 resistor on the "Rosey" side of the tone control and the diode pair, and another between the output of the 2nd stage and that midscoop filter (On mine, I label it the "head" rather than "tone" control because it has two heads, one "black" and mellow, and the other "white and irritable" - Rosey and Ray ....I think you have to see the movie to appreciate it).  If you can score a 1uf NP cap to stick in each place, I think you'll do alright, and if you can't a .47uf might do with a small sacrifice in bass.

Missing from that same schem (jeez I need to redraw it) is any cap decoupling the power supply.  A 100uf cap from V+ to ground would help.

[tungngruv]

Thanks for the reply Mark, you are too kind!!!! I'm playing in a band that's opening up for a national act, Allele Saturday night. After I heal from playing that gig, I'm going to try to get this stripboard layout verified once and for all. Mark, I can't thank you enough for all you done for me, this forum and the killer pedals you design!! Thanks!

[Connoisseur of Distortion]

does it get that funny chorusy sound on its own? i'm sorry if the question's stupid, but the schematic left me wondering...

[MartyMart]

Here's an updated schematic, Mark if you could check that I followed your
instructions on the Vb/power side and the 1uf poly caps ??

Cheers,

Marty

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/Martys-layouts-and-photos/Roseyray_II

[tungngruv]

At the time I made this, I was recording everything into my computer sound card. Then RDV started doing some killer sounding samples and I had to do one with an amp, good mic and I put a little delay and chorus on it using a midi verb 2 (trying poorly to keep up with RDV). That's the effect your hearing on Marks Roseyray.

[Mark Hammer]

Yup, that's right, Marty.  Many many thanks.

Connoisseur,
The "funny chorussing sound"?  I'm not sure what you're referring to but it might be that LF modulation that comes from the DC coupling of the stage 2 output to noninverting input in the absence of those added caps.  It was the bane of my existence for a while....so close yet so far, if you know what I mean.

The 240k resistor shown in the linked-to schem doesn't HAVE to be 240k.  It's a slightly uncommon value, so feel free to replace it with the more common 270k.

What also seems to be missing in this schem is the 470pf cap I added between the wiper of the tone/"head" pot and ground (which you can easily do by running the cap from wiper to pot chassis if the chassis is grounded).  This small addition has a nice effect on the ability of that one control to achieve a wider variety of characters.

[RLBJR65]

Something does not look quite right on the layout. Check out the strip for tone 2 the only thing connected to tone 2 should be the 2.2 cap. Looks like a trace cut is missing between C10 and C13.

Richard

[stand]

Hi everyone!

Here is just a minor addition to "Roseyray" schematic; I included that small cap Mark H. mentioned here... I hope that I didn't make mistake there, though since I am a beginner you can expect all sorts of stupidities from me   ...

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/stand21/RoseyrayIIa.jpg

Btw, "Roseyray" really sounds awesome on that clip (I still have so much water in my mouth...) and is not tooooo demanding to make, so I dare to ask you who ever made it (especially Mark, of course, and tungngruv, too) – how can we get rid of that motorboat noise that people mentioned? What is the best solution for this problem regarding this so smart constructed "two-headed" pedal? I'd like to built one, but I am affraid that I'll be unable to fight that noise...

Dejan

[kag]

Excuse me, but...
Why I can't access Mark's web site? I've tried many times, (also diferents urls) with Internet Explorer and Mozilla, even defeated the Firewall here, but it doesn't help.

Please if anyone could give me any hint I'd really apreciate!
Thanks

[stand]

Hmmm...

Kaq, if you're talking about Ampage.org then something is probably wrong on your side 'cause I've got it so easy (IExplorer, nothing special about it). Here is link:

http://ampage.org/cgi-bin/hammer/index.cgi?cmd=lt&xid=&fid=&ex=&pg=1

I hope it helps...

And I hope that Roseyray owners won't forget to say if just these 1uF caps helped them to stop that motorboat noise... 

Dejan

[Mark Hammer]

It is quite possible that op-amp type matters.  If I can tear myself away from trying to get my Femto-verb working, I'll try and dig up the several working Roseyrays I have and compare them to the one that still motorboats, and see what's different.  I suspect the matter will ultimately need to be resolved by a redesign that involves a re-bias at the input to the 2nd stage.  The unit currently re-cycles the bias voltage coming from the 1st stage, which is probably a stupid strategy for a high gain circuit.

[stand]

Hi Mark!

If it's all about op-amps then you could just let us know which were included in bad or good sounding Roseyrays. But, since you probably changed some things here or there maybe you already found combination that works, but you made made so many pedals (and also do other jobs) so you couldn't memorize which one is it... When you find free time you could post your "the best sounding Roesyray" diagram or advices here. I am sure it will bu hugelly appreciated...

In any case, your idea to use one op-amp for almost two pedals is great!

Dejan

[WGTP]

FWIW, adding a 1 to 50K resistor before the notch filter lowers the treble output.  I have messed with the values in the notch filter extensively and modeled it with the Duncan Tonestack.  I encourage experimentation with the 2 caps and resistors.  Thanks again Mark for showing us that.  

[lovric]

a bit OT:

another attempt on mixing 2 sounds in one box:
http://www.axiomdrift.com/schematics/DD%20PN.gif