Red Llama sounds good with single coils, NOT with humbuckers...?

[Morocotopo]

Hi, I tested the red llama (no mods, unbuffered IC) through a Fender hot rod Deluxe, normal (clean) channel.  With an ESP strat w/ di marzio HS-2 (single coil) pups, it sounds good, a mild overdrive, but very responsive, natural, nice sounds...
Then, with a Gibson ES 335 dot w/ ´57 humbuckers, and it sounds awful! Ragged, synthy in a bad way, not nice! Feels like you´re overloading the circuit or something...
Anyone had the same experiences? any solutions/mods? I´d really like to use it with humbuckers...

Thanks

Morocotopo

[Processaurus]

Less gain in the fixed gain stage maybe (smaller resistor in the feedback loop of the inverter that doesn't have the pot).  I found mine to sound good with low gain too, and progressivily  worse with more gain, with lots of gain mine started to sound synthy too, like it was turning back into a logic chip, at midnight.  Cinderella Overdrive that one is.

[gez]

As mentioned, lowering gain is one option.  Another is limiting bass, though not sure whether that's already been done in this circuit (always helps if you post a schematic).  The solution might be as simple as reducing the value of the input cap: humbuckers produce a lot more bass than single coils and that can sound bad in these circuits.  If you get the balance right (a slight attenuation of bass) it shouldn't affect the tone of the single coils, but hopefully will clean up the humbucker sound.

[Morocotopo]

Oh, thanks for the suggestions Processaurus and gez, I will try them. Here´s the schem:

It´s taken from gaussmarkov´s project file (gaussmarkov.net), I hope it´s Ok to post it, it´s not the complete file.

[gez]

C1 and C4 are the caps to mess about with.  If you make them so that they have a slight reactance to the lowest frequencies of a guitar it shouldn't make too much difference to the sound you get from the single coils, but hopefully will clean up the humbuckers a little.

Try 22n for C1 and if that doesn't make any difference, a 10n (or smaller even).  If need be reduce C4 too.  Worth a try before you lower gain.

[Morocotopo]

Thats GREAT help gez, I´ll try your suggestions as soon as I can (not till tuesday I think... work... ). Will report back with results, positive or negative.

[Morocotopo]

Ok, update on this thread:
Tried the suggested mods, but the basic tonal character of the circuit didn´t vary that much. Finally I settled on 22nF caps (223) for C1 and C4, it gets a bit smoother with those, a bit less bass. the 1M resistor stays the same, doesn´t make much difference, I tried 470K, 100K and it only changes the amount of OD slightly. I guess this circuit isn´t the best match for humbuckers... it still sounds better with single coils, more alive, vibrant, natural, humbuckers (at least mine) sound a bit muddy, dark, less alive. Don´t get me wrong, it´s a nice OD, probably will box it, but not exactly what I want.
On to the BSIAB2 then... (yes I know it´s higher gain)

thanks Gez and Processaurus for the help

Morocotopo

[gez]

Try  removing/reducing the 1k current limiting resistor (R4) from V+ to Vdd of the chip to give you a little more headroom/less gain (softer clipping).

[d95err]

Ok, update on this thread:
Tried the suggested mods, but the basic tonal character of the circuit didn´t vary that much. Finally I settled on 22nF caps (223) for C1 and C4, it gets a bit smoother with those, a bit less bass. the 1M resistor stays the same, doesn´t make much difference, I tried 470K, 100K and it only changes the amount of OD slightly. I guess this circuit isn´t the best match for humbuckers... it still sounds better with single coils, more alive, vibrant, natural, humbuckers (at least mine) sound a bit muddy, dark, less alive. Don´t get me wrong, it´s a nice OD, probably will box it, but not exactly what I want.
On to the BSIAB2 then... (yes I know it´s higher gain)

Just FYI, I built the BSIAB2, and I found it works very well with single-coils, but not very good with humbuckers...

[Morocotopo]

d95err, couldn´t you have told me that BEFORE I etched the PCB and bought the parts??   
Will try that now gez, results report soon.

Thanks

Morocotopo

[AL]

You could try using a lower value "Gain" pot and lowering the value of R3.


AL

[Morocotopo]

So, this circuit turns out to be an infinitely moddable one... sort of like a fuzzface... and I swore to never build a Fuzzface because I didn´t want to be eternally modding and listening   

thanks AL

Morocotopo

[Mark Hammer]

Since when was ANY distortion NOT eternally moddable?

Seriously, though, the crux of the matter is that satisfying, pleasing, and appropriate clipping will always be a matter of tailoring both the gain and the toneshaping of the clipping circuit to suit the level, playing style, and tone of the input signal.  It's that simple.  This is why this particular site has so damned many postings and why very few non-distoprtion pedals will attract as many postings as even the dumbest most simplistic distortion circuit will.  Building just about any distortion circuit is a bit like buying a piece of meat - it WILL taste different depending on what else you do with it.