Drop Tuning

[WGTP]

My son recently got me off into drop D or C tunings and it is intersting the effect that they have on the "Character" of the tone.  I think it is sort of dark and a little depressing (I don't really need that)  

Even compensating with heavier gauge strings seems to keep most of the effect.  It's not just the extra floppiness of the strings, but the actual Key Change, I guess.  This must be weird for people with perfect pitch. The Psychological Effect of Key Changes in Music.  I guess the classical guys already knew this.   

Anyway, it seems to be yet another factor to consider along with guitar/pickup/amp/speaker/cabinet/room/music/mood/temperature/
humidity/barometric pressure/moon phase/bio-rhythm/etc. that requires adjustment/tweaking on the old bread board.  This sure makes me seem picky/obsessive.   

[stm]

This subject seems more appropriate for the Lounge, however it is certainly an interesting point.

I can add the following:

1) It is frustrating how one day you are playing with a perfect tone, and then the next day you decide to resume where you left, set every knob just as the previous day but it doesn't seem to sound as good.  Too many factors affecting your tone--some of them psychological as well!

2) My brother told me about a guitarist playing with a totally different tuning scheme, nearly all fifths.  IIRC, his setting might have been something like C-G-C-G-C-E.  Playing open strings give you a powerful C major chord. Apparently the character you get is radically different, however this requires re-learning the chords and individual notes.  Might give it a try if you are in the mood for something new.

3) An old recording engineer I had the luck to work with for a while told me that during a recording session for the Navy Band, the instruments didn't sound just right.  Investigating what was going on, the band leader told him they were tuned to A=445 Hz, because "that's how they liked it".  The recording engineer finally convinced everybody to retune to A=440 and he saved the day with that apparently inofensive change.

[captntasty]

I guess if your talking about drop D from common guitar tuning or taking that to drop C it can be and probably is dark on purpose - if your using it for that heavy, scooped nu-metal type sound, thats what the music is... dark.

Alternate tunings like C-G-C-G-C-E (open C) or E-B-E-G#-B-E(open E) can be great for slide or chord voicings that require only fingering, say, a diad of some shape but when combined with all the open strings make a very pleasing wide open sort of voicing and allows the player (if fingerpicking) to play almost as if playing a piano. 

Alternate tunings do require a different technique than standard tuning but I've found that if you can play standard, alternate tunings allow further explorations as to what the guitar is capable of musically - that there are more chords and voicings out there than you can imagine and more emotions (happy or sad or anything in between) that can be evoked than previously thought because of it.

Please don't assume that a different tuning will be depressing... they can be but not all of them.

[WGTP]

I wasn't really think about alternate tunings having that effect as much as the standard tuning a step or 2 lower. 

Apparantly different orchestras have tuned "around" middle C at 440Hz for years.

It's sort of like the "Has Robert Johnson been speeded up" deal

Mostly I was thinking about how certain pickups or distortion pedals are described as being designed for dropped tunning and how I started changing capacitors on the breadboard trying to tighten the bottom end and brighten up the top end while playing dropped to D.

It seems to change the harmonics and resonance of the guitar.  If your trying for the Nu-Metal, that is the deal... I sort of thought it was the Dual Recto thing.

It also explains one of the reasons I didn't care for Black Sabbath in the '70's.  I've read they "dropped" to C#.

Makes it easier for the singer to hit the high notes.   

[MartyMart]

I often try different tunings, it's quite inspiring to pick up the gtr and not go to
your "best 10 chords" every damm time !! ( we all do it )
Check out Joni Mitchells site for some great tuning setups.
Friend of mine has a VG-8 which is full of those

MM.

[The Tone God]

Bah. Talk to me when do a gig completely in open G minor dim with a slide.

Andrew

P.S. Yes I have.

P.P.S. Lounge ?

[petemoore]

  Extra bass has been a kick for a long time.
  Wagner pressed into service an "Octa-bass", a two man operation [one on a ladder to work the fretboard, the other on the ground to excite the strings] in addition to multiple bass instruments, all playing together to 'rattle the rafters' of a hall using accoustic instruments.
  Huge Bass is 'exotic'..or used to be, at the least it is rare compared to treble or normal bass, simply because it requires 'more'...amp/speaker/cab/room for it to work it's trick.
  I'm a big fan of 'added bass' [multiplied is even better...] amplitude, 1,000's of watts worth can be a real treat, I find it's ability to 'full body massage' and influence the regulation of blood flow quite exciting to the senses. That kind of wattage at higher frequencies can bring on a headache and hearing loss...causing fatigue and general unpleasantness.
  I like treble, a certain amount is fine, TONS of bass is cool !!!
  ...as is playing with 1 finger barring chords...can be cool, for an 'effect', it tends to become repetitive...no movement 'between intervals'...just 'parallel chords' gets tiresome quickly for my tastes...I see players 'cheating' like this...and long for some 'regular' guitar style playing...with major and minor chordings etc.
 

[MetalUpYerEye]

Jimmy Page used a funny tuning on "Rain Song" I think it was E A D A D E. Anyway, it sounds very melodic and pretty almost like a harp at times (well, to my ears...) if you know what you're doing, which takes a bit of time at first. My friends and I just call it "rain song tuning." I'm not much into drop C or D but give me an odd tuning to play with (like rain song) and i'll be there for hours.

[Eb7+9]

It seems to change the harmonics and resonance of the guitar. 

some of my gits are in Eb (how would you guess eh?!) and I noticed this too - not only making things easier to play and sing but also on the harmonic content of the instrument - actually, I think I first realised this when I noticed how Jimi's Strat sounds so warm/rich/groovy on that open E chord shape just before he goes into Machine Gun where he's tuned to D ...

I haven't sat down to calculate things exactly but if you consider the ear acts as a band-pass filter with an upper cutoff of around 16khz (t'is around there for most of us by the time we're adults) and assume that guitar strings produce harmonics that go that high then down tuning would bring upper harmonics that are attenuated by the sloping of the high-end response of the ear more inside into the band-pass region ... so under that view we would be introducing a greater proportion of that "lost" harmonic content into the overall picture - hearing a richer sound harmonics wise as a result ... the lower tension on the strings and neck might possibly be playing an additional role too - who knows ...

yO!

[captntasty]

around 16khz (t'is around there for most of us by the time we're adults)

Yah, totally, now wer're getting somwhere... it's true, those tunings allow for more harmonic content that we can perceive/reproduce in our brains - SRV,JIMI, etc.. they both did it, maybe not for those reasons but... they did it.

When you start talking about how pickups and amps respond to those tunings, I hear what you're saying, they respond differently, thats what pickups and amps do, thank God.  It's different, it's exploration... even though it's really charted territory, it's not charted territory for everyone... Man, go explore! Not trying to put you down... that is not what I would ever want... explore the darkness available as well as the light... ah,sorry I'm on a soapbox.
Peace...

[g.e.o]

hello. i read everybody's reply on this and think i do agree with everyone ! still we have to remember that each instrument is built to produce a certain sound which in guitar is more mid-tremble than bass. the bass sequences especially low ones are GREAT but cant really come out from our guitars. of course experimenting with different tunings is a good thing to do and we shouldnt ever forget that experimenting is the only way for improving and moving forward. thats all i had to say. be always good!

[markm]

It's fairly common for Live performances to tune down a half step to make things "work" a little better.
Very, Very common in Country & Western guitar slinging is the dropped D tuning......that Low D string gets real deep and twangy sounding with a Tele lead p'up!
What can really screw you up is backing up a Country Female singer......all weird keys like Aflat....D flat! 
Does away with the use of open string stuff unless you tune down or use a capo!

[Harry]

Ever try tuning to EEEEEE? It's sounds really pretty odd.

[Gilles C]

It's fairly common for Live performances to tune down a half step to make things "work" a little better.
Very, Very common in Country & Western guitar slinging is the dropped D tuning......that Low D string gets real deep and twangy sounding with a Tele lead p'up!
What can really screw you up is backing up a Country Female singer......all weird keys like Aflat....D flat! 
Does away with the use of open string stuff unless you tune down or use a capo!

Or stop playing...

That's what a Sax player did for a song I did in E flat. He told me afterward that it was a key he never practiced.

And I wasn't even tuned down for that one, just playing elsewhere  on the neck. But it convinced me not to tuned down in open E flat as I had in mind before that happened...

I like the sound of my guitar in open D though. 

Gilles

[mjones99]

I think strat type guitars sound better/richer tuned down a half step to Eb, this is very common in hard rock music, van halen, stryper, etc.

[Branimir]

I tune half step down in one of my bands, and it does sound a bit different, sort of melacholic? Dunno, but it's not as much difference as in...

C tuning (C,F,A#,D#,G;C), which is kinda "paino" like.

I noticed a few things:

When I listen to music (on the radio, or bands on my mp3 playlist), that use standard tuning or half step down, I can hear the chords, like - "this is definitly a D major chord", or stuff like that.

When I listen to music that's in C (Sleep, High On Fire etc.), I can't hear that stuff, like this is picked on the neck around here... All the notes sounds strange, unfamiliar, as in standard tuned music I can actually sense what chord, or progression in a song could be, in C tuning, I have no clue!!

I think it's related to how strings vibrate, no matter the gauge (i use 12-52), they just resonate different?! Striking the same note on a standard tuned guitar (fretted note, not open string), sounds different on a C tuned guitar... Of course string gauge comes into account here too and stuff like that...

I think I'm going to do a full circle in some time, after all these lower tunings or akward ones, I really like to tune standard from time to time...

Of course, then I get pissed because that song from Johnny Cash I really like and want to play, is in some different key and I need a capo... Ah bugger

[tcobretti]

Fun Facts:

Fripp created a tuning used by him and his legion of disciples that is almost all fifths CGDAEG.  It is mindbending to play in - I used it exclusively for about 5 years in an effort to change the way I conceptualize the guitar.  Lead is very difficult because of the stretches involved, and blues scale is next to impossible.  Note: for tunings that are not primarily fourths, it is a VERY good idea to adjust the gauge of your string to match the pitches.  With the Fripp tuning I used a huge C string, a heavy g, and normal d, a light a, a normal E, and then a super thin G.  In fact, I often didn't even use the G because even using an .008 it always broke within minutes.

A tuning Jimmy Page used often (White Summer/Black Mountain Side and Kashmir leap to mind) is DADGAD.  It is a very fun tuning to play with.  I believe Rain Song was DADADE.

Back in the day Tony Iommi often detuned to help Ozzy.  He plays 8s, and I believe a key component of his sound is the sound of detuned super light strings.

I would say it is certainly heavier to detune your guitar, but it is also cliche at this point.  Soundgarden burned that stuff out in the 90s.  However, I love to play lead on a detuned guitar; the bends are insane!

[Antero]

Detuning the guitar on a normal scale does create a darker sound, because of the decreased upper harmonic content (the vibrations don't carry as well in the looser tension).  It is definitely good sometimes for increasing the heaviness...

I've got a problem, of course, which is that i'm so heavy-handed that I'm using 12-52s (25" scale guitar) and tuning down makes me uncomfortable and push things out of tune.   

I want a baritone.   

[WGTP]

I'm trying to relate this to the electronic hardware so as not to be Lounge material. 

OK, so our op amps, diodes, Jfets, GE's, etc, are having to deal with/generate different harmonics than they are used to when we drop tune or alternate tune.  The high and low pass filters are cutting/boosting frequencies at slightly different frequencies on the response curve, the resonance frequencies in our guitars/basses are peaking/dipping at different spots in relation to the harmonics, our ears/brains "hear" things differently in different keys, the speaker/cabinet/rooms respond differently to the lower/higher number of cycles per second, the strings flop around more or less and generate more/less of the first 10? harmonics, etc.

Normal E on the Guitar is 80Hz.  E on the Bass is 40Hz The harmonics are generated based on the fundamental frequencies. 

Drop tuning changes these to approx. 70Hz and 35Hz respectively, depending on how low you go.

All pretty simplified, but it may change your preferences in terms of favorite distortion pedal, cap size, resistor value, gain level, etc.