Which Tonebender would you build, two-knob or three-knob version?

[Burstbucker]

I've already built various Fuzzface pedals with two transistors but I was thinking of maybe building a Tonebender next, I know that there's a two-knob version and I believe that there are maybe two different three-knob versions.  I'm wondering which one I should choose?

There's no point in building something that sounds almost the same as a Fuzzface as I've already got a bunch of those already. I've heard that Page and Beck back in the 60s used Tonebenders, I'm wondering which ones they were using.  I seen an old picture of Page onstage with a pedal with three knobs, it has the same shape as the 70s Tonebenders.   I also like the Fuzztone he used on "How many more times" on the first Zeppelin album, you can here it if you pan to one side, it's a pretty cool sounding fuzz, real wooly!

Which Tonebender should I build?  Small Bear has a set of transistors for either a 2-knob or a 3-knob version.

[RDV]

http://aronnelson.com/gallery/Fatboy-Effects/sitonebendermk

RDV

[Bernardduur]

I like the 3 knobbed one really much

[petemoore]

  TB MkII, and derivitaves...have:
  A fuzz face in them, Q's 2&3 are a FF. Q1 is a preboost transistor.
  And they...can sound very fuzzy, alot of the cool stuff in them is found by using the guitars VControl..which doesn't roll down to 'clean' like FF. A very nice, popular, 'famous historied' circuit.
  The 3 knob Tonebenders:
  Have no FF in them,
  Have a tone control
  Are more of a very nice Overdrive or milder fuzz, according some of our accounts, versatile, a different: looking schematic/sounding pedal.
  Which Tonebender would you build, two-knob or three-knob version?
  Me?...I built both, but have neither now, 'exactly', ...I use Ge's in FF with an extre boost transistor /2 bypass switches.

[tcobretti]

I haven't built the 3 knob, but I built RDVs MKII.  It is very kazoo like, and sounds great if like that sort of thing.  I highly recommend using PN2369A transistors.  They help prevent oscillation and sound freaking awesome.

[Moonface]

MKII is Max Pane in teh ass. III is really good if you got it biased right.

[petemoore]

MKII is Max Pane in teh ass. III is really good if you got it biased right.
  Yupp, then the next day, it might be sounding like a different circuit and require...etc.
  that's .5 why I 1/2 gave up and got a FF working reliably, then added a Ge booster [or other type] to the front end.

[Burstbucker]

Thanks for your responses guys!

BTW, the other day I tried out a Fulltone Soulbender, which Fuller describes as the Tonebender used by Page and Beck back in the late 60s.  This Soulbender has three knobs and one of them is a tone control, I must admit that it sounded really good.

[Moonface]

I must say now, I gave up with FF's and TB's. I have never been able to make them sound as I would like. I sold ALL my FF's and TB's. I am currently selling my OC140's away. I'm fed up with germanium mojo shit.

[lowstar]

i built both and i like ´em both. since they´re pretty simple circuits you should build both of them, too ?
on the 2-knob i added a input cap-switch to get some brutal bass on the menu.
the 2-knob sounds very good in simple setups (passive axe-bender-amp).
the 3-knob can give cool honky mid-rangey sounds cause of the tone control.

they´re boxed up next to each other like the brothers they are: the 2-knob in metallic british racing green and the 3-knob in metallic blue, both with white ralley stripes.

cheers,
lowstar

[billings]

The problem with Ge's is that they're so expensive to get in any quantity/variety that it's hard to tinker with different Hfe's in the same circuit. For the cost of a pair of Ge transistors from SmallBear, you could order a batch of 100 low-mid gain PNP or NPN silicon transistors, gain sort them, and go to town.

[Dragonfly]

i build a rangemaster and a fuzz face into the same box, and each stage is switchable....that way i can choose from RM (boost), fuzz face, or "pseudo-tonebender" (with both footswitches engaged) ...cool little pedal that gets LOTS of use...

AC

[Burstbucker]

"RM (boost), fuzz face, or "pseudo-tonebender" (with both footswitches engaged)"

Hey Dragonfly, I tried this before already with a couple of my DIY Fuzzfaces and I find that when I kick in the Treble Booster the Fuzzface gets waaayyyy too bright, nasty ice pick in the ear!  Maybe it's an impedance problem?  Do you find this to be the case with your pedal too?

[Bernardduur]

I've just finished another 3 knobbed (well, it is a 4 knobbed Yardbox clone) and I am still very impressed with it.....

It is so versatile; from ice pick to bassy fuzz and so fat..........

Found the transistors quite cheap around here (germanium)

[RaceDriver205]

Can anyone provide a 'textbook' description of a ''wooly'' sound?

[Meanderthal]

 Textbook wooly sound: Big Muff. Seriously though, the 3 knob tonebender gets my vote!

[mac]

When I breadborded the 3-knob I found that Q3 was not well biased. I began to experiment based on this schem:

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/tb3bb_sc.gif
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/tb3tb_sc.gif

I removed the 10k going to gnd from the the joint of the 18k & 10k. Also I added a 1M pot from Q3 collector to base. This helps to bias Q3.
It sounds awesome but I do not like how it reacts with the guitar volume. But on the other hand wheather wil not ruin the sound as in a FF.

The 2-knob version is almost a FF so it is has the *@$#& temperature issues.

I'd build both.


mac

[petemoore]

Hey Dragonfly, I tried this before already with a couple of my DIY Fuzzfaces and I find that when I kick in the Treble Booster the Fuzzface gets waaayyyy too bright, nasty ice pick in the ear!  Maybe it's an impedance problem?  Do you find this to be the case with your pedal too?
  Ge RM has a rolloff cap or two for the high end, FF has a pregain, and a rolloff cap across the 1k resistor, but I'm thinking about adding an adjustable LP filter to one of those two.
  just using the vol. / use the tone control on guitar is what I've been up to with these.