The Flange with No Name...an attempt to better myself

[Josemitejam]

Hi all,

I'm really trying to kick my skill level up a bit here with this one. I've built tons of kits and have etched a few myself, but this one contains a lot of parts I know very little about and it doesn't contain the coddling instructions of typical kits. I'm about to buy all my components now. They're coming from a bit all over the place and I wanted to run a questions by you all on areas of uncertainty. Here's a link to the build document:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kqEvRodTRtgS7zFl3puy6qp6RXRRoSle/view

And here are my questions:

1.   Some capacitors are listed as 63v, one is listed at 160v. I'm assuming the voltage can be higher than that, but needs to be at least that. The minimum voltage being at 9v, since I'll being powering it with 9v. Is this correct?
2.   When I search the BC549C on smallbear it gives two options: ONS or FSC. What's the difference and which one is appropriate for this pedal?
3.   The BC307B looks like it's hard to come by – I found one through digipart.com – does this sound reliable? Here's the link:
https://www.digipart.com/part/307-B
4.   There's a component in the BOM called "Loopage" – but no further description – what's going on there?
5.   I bought my VTL5C3's off of ebay...I couldn't find them anywhere else. Good idea? Bad idea? Anyone know of a good source for those?
6.   DPDTPADS...I'm guess these are just DPDT switches. Is that correct?
7.   There's 3 LEDs listed – in fact they are listed as LEDB – is there a difference?
8.   Still regarding the LEDs or LEDBs – on the 3rd page the LEDs that are recommended are the Knight Lites KSB-4234 Super Green, clear green case. Is this in place of the three previously mentioned LEDs or no? I would think not...but I'm not sure.
9.   Does anyone know where I could find those Knight Lites? (The Kingbrights [as a backup] are on mouser, if anything).
10.   On page 3 it says that the VTL5C3 VACTROL does not work well – is there one that is recommended or am I missing something?
11.   On page 4 header pins are recommended – I was looking at these on smallbear. Is one better than the other? For the Molex I was thinking I could snap off the two extra.

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/double-sided-single-in-line-pin/

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/molex-header-6-pin-horizontal-mount/

12.   For the shielded wire mentioned on page 4 I was going to use this:

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/wire-coax-rg-174/

13.   A well-regulated bench power supply is recommended for this build. Any suggestions as to which to buy? Any to avoid?


Thank you so much for your time!


Joe

[Marcos - Munky]

I tried to answer the most I can:

1 - your power supply is up to 12V. So the caps should handle at least about twice this value (for safety). For electrolytics, use at least 16V, 25V is better. But for ceramics and polyesters, you won't find such low voltages. For those, use the lowest you can get. While bigger voltages will work, usually they mean a bigger sized part, so they could be too big to fit the board.

2 - On Semiconductor and Fairchild Semiconductor. They're just different brands. Get any of them, it doesn't matter which one.

7 - they're just leds. Maybe the B is related to the component library they used to draw the layout.

8 and 9 - this suggested led is in case you're using a home made vactrol. Don't worry too much on that.

10 - they recommend you make your own vactrol, using the knight lites led and the nsl-5542 ldr which is available at Smallbear.

11 - first one, with no angle.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Hopefully these help.....

1.   Some capacitors are listed as 63v, one is listed at 160v. I'm assuming the voltage can be higher than that, but needs to be at least that. The minimum voltage being at 9v, since I'll being powering it with 9v. Is this correct?
For the electrolytic caps, use 25V or above. For the film caps, do the same. As long as they are 25V or above you will be fine
2.   When I search the BC549C on smallbear it gives two options: ONS or FSC. What's the difference and which one is appropriate for this pedal?
No difference. Just make sure you get the "C" version of that transistor.
3.   The BC307B looks like it's hard to come by – I found one through digipart.com – does this sound reliable? Here's the link:
https://www.digipart.com/part/307-B
These are indeed hard to come by as they have been long out of production. Finding a good source is up to you. Good luck
4.   There's a component in the BOM called "Loopage" – but no further description – what's going on there?
Loopage is a function. By actuating the Loopage foot switch, you enable the effects loop. Thats it. The unit has 3 foot switches. Time, Space, and Loopage. Time is for the Flanger, Space is for the Tremolo, and Loopage is only for the effects loop.
5.   I bought my VTL5C3's off of ebay...I couldn't find them anywhere else. Good idea? Bad idea? Anyone know of a good source for those?
DON'T buy expensive Vactrols! Use the suggested LDRs (NSL-5542) in the build doc along with some diffused Green LEDs. I have used these every time and they work Great! The important thing to remember is that the LDRs have to be 20Meg Dark. BUT... since you already bought the Vactrols, Just use them where appropriate.
6.   DPDTPADS...I'm guess these are just DPDT switches. Is that correct?
The Dead End FX boards have wiring pads to connect the 3PDT foot switches to. The build document shows you exactly how to wire them.
7.   There's 3 LEDs listed – in fact they are listed as LEDB – is there a difference?
There can be a total of 7 LEDs used for this project. If you follow my advice above, 4 of them will be Green diffused LEDs to drive the LDRs. The other 3 will be the indicator LEDs that you will see on the face of the pedal. Typically, these are Red (Space), Green (Time), and Yellow (Loopage)
8.   Still regarding the LEDs or LEDBs – on the 3rd page the LEDs that are recommended are the Knight Lites KSB-4234 Super Green, clear green case. Is this in place of the three previously mentioned LEDs or no? I would think not...but I'm not sure.
These are the recommended LEDs to use for driving the LDRs. You can use these or you can try different diffused Green LEDs. Up to you. Since you are using Vactrols, then you do not need to worry about these. Only the Red, Green, and Yellow LEDs for the pedal face.
9.   Does anyone know where I could find those Knight Lites? (The Kingbrights [as a backup] are on mouser, if anything).
They have a website. I am sure somewhere on the website it will list who they use as distributors.
10.   On page 3 it says that the VTL5C3 VACTROL does not work well – is there one that is recommended or am I missing something?
As mentioned above, it is best to use the Diffused Green LED/NSL5542 LDR combination. Vactrols are spendy!
11.   On page 4 header pins are recommended – I was looking at these on smallbear. Is one better than the other? For the Molex I was thinking I could snap off the two extra.
Use STRAIGHT header pins

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/double-sided-single-in-line-pin/

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/molex-header-6-pin-horizontal-mount/

12.   For the shielded wire mentioned on page 4 I was going to use this:

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/wire-coax-rg-174/
RG-174 will work well here

13.   A well-regulated bench power supply is recommended for this build. Any suggestions as to which to buy? Any to avoid?
There are MANY well regulated power supplies. It is ultimately your choice. I will say this... I have never used this pedal at 12V. Didn't really see much of an improvement from 9VDC.

[Josemitejam]

Thanks a ton Marcos-Munky and Govmnt_Lacky! I'm pretty sure I'll probably have more questions as I progress, but that cleared up a lot and it's always nice to know that you're off to a good start with all the correct components!

[Josemitejam]

A few more questions:

1. For the 3P4T - is this the correct switch to use?

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/26mm-enclosed-3p2-4t/

2. I bought a bunch of IC's from Mouser and I accidentally got an extremely small sized chips for a much smaller board. What language am I looking for in order to know that I'm looking at the correct size? I'm looking specifically for MN3207 and MN3102. If possible, could you send a link so I know for certain? (Doesn't have to be from mouser - wherever you'd recommend)

3. For the nylon standoffs used to raise the the daughterboard from the motherboard - do I need the standoff and screw combination specifically or will these do?

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/board-mounting-hdw-mini-pcb-plastic-bulk/

4. Will 25k trimpot do just as well as a 22k? Or is that a bad idea?

5. I've watched some videos of people making small plastic enclosures or heat shrink enclosures in order to create a dark environment for their led/ldr combos - is that necessary? Wouldn't the light from the other led's have an effect on other ldr's that they are not matched up with? It doesn't show anything like that in the instructions but it seems like a reasonable possibility.

6. Is there a correct orientation for the oep1200?


Thank you again in advance!!



Joe

[Invertiguy]

I actually just finished my Flange With No Name build, so I'll answer what I can

1. Yes, that's the right switch.

2. It sounds like you ordered SMD components by mistake. When you're ordering ICs from Mouser, make sure you specify through hole/PDIP packaging in the filter.

As for the MN3207/MN3102, Mouser doesn't carry them and NOS versions can be rather hard to find. Small Bear usually carries the BL3207 and V3207D clones, but they're out of stock at the moment (they have the V3102 though). A quick Google search reveals that they're available at several other vendors, however.

3. I'd highly suggest sticking with the screw+spacer combination. Also, depending on the footswitch you're using you may need different length spacers than listed; on my build, the footswitch beneath the board sat high enough that the lugs contacted the bottom of the delay board and I wound up needing slightly longer spacers+screws. I'd make a trip to your local hardware store and grab a few different lengths to see which fits the best, they're cheap enough.

4.I see no reason why 25k wouldn't work, as long as it's a Bourns 3296W. Of course, if you're ordering from Mouser there's no reason not to just get the 22k in the first place.

5. It's not strictly necessary, but it won't hurt anything either and might make calibration easier. All the LED/LDR combos on the main board are sealed VTL5C3 vactrols, so the only LDR to worry about is the one on the Delay Board. It's pretty well shielded from the front panel LEDs by the main board, but it will of course be exposed to ambient light when you have the back cover off while adjusting the trimpots. On my build I left them exposed and just covered them with a piece of electrical tape while I was calibrating it, but bonding them with heat shrink would definitely be a more elegant and permanent solution.

EDIT: If you're not using vactrols for the LED/LDR pairs on the main board you should probably just go ahead and join them with heat shrink. I have no idea if the extra ambient light inside the enclosure from the exposed LEDs would be enough to make a difference or not but it's better to be safe than sorry.

6. I used the Bourns transformer that's pictured in their build instead of the OEP1200 (mostly because the Bourns part is available at Mouser while the OEP isn't), but a cursory glance at the datasheet suggests either orientation will work. It is a 1:1 transformer, after all!

[Mark Hammer]

I have not implemented it myself, but have long been intrigued with the notion of "theta processing".  This is a tweak to flanging that spaces the notches and peaks at the low end a little wider, yielding an apparently more "musical-sounding" and less box-ey flange.

The original math-heavy description appeared in Electronotes, some 45 years ago, and was implemented in early Eventide Instant Flangers.  It involves inserting a number of fixed lag allpass stages ( https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=126667.0 ), though I have to say I have never been quite able to figure out whether they are applied to the delayed or dry signal being fed to the mixing stage.  The Electronotes description discusses inserting as many as 24 such stages.  The late great Jurgen Haible's "Stormtide" and "Son of Stormtide" flanger designs ( http://jhaible.com/legacy/sonofstormtide/sonofstormtide.html )  include a switchable Theta option, though again, because the schematic is split up over several files, I can't quite figure out where the stages are inserted.  However, Jurgen included but four such stages and deemed it enough.

Note that "lead" allpass stages increase phase shift up to some maxima as pitch/frequency increases  (e.g., 1000hz would be shifted more than 800hz and 800hz more than 400hz).  "Lag" stages apply more phase shift the lower the frequency.  This is how, as the flanger sweeps "downward" (i.e., towards longer time delay), a little more shift is applied to lower-frequency content, to space the notches out differently.  Notches and peaks above that region behave as usual.  I would expect the addition of theta processing to be negligible when medium to fast speeds are used, and more noticeable when slow speeds leave the sweep in the lower region for longer periods.

To the best of my recollection, none of us here have attempted to implement theta processing, or at least haven't demoed it for us.  But the topic has been discussed several times over the years:  https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106273.0

[Josemitejam]

Great info!!!

So invertiguy, how are you liking your flange!?! Did you find it difficult to calibrate? If you don't mind me throwing just a few more follow up questions at you, here they are:

1. So the BL3207 and the BL3102 - how exact are clones like these to the originals? Could I assume, most of the time, that if the digits are the same then it'll be essentially the same circuit. I don't know too much about IC's beyond being lucky enough to always being able, until now, to get the one I needed and just plugging it right in.

2. Which ICs did you end up with for those two?

3. Here's the BL3207 I keep seeing - seem like a good source to you? Or is there better?

4. Lastly, did you use a regulated power supply? I don't have one yet so I've been looking around, is something like this fitting? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JQXQ8S5/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AX44O8S6AKC2V&psc=1

Thanks a ton again!


Joe

[Invertiguy]

Oh man, I love it so far. It's not like any other flanger out there. The sweep isn't quite as wide as some other flangers, as is typical of circuits using the 3102/3207 combo, but that hardly matters. If you want stereotypical jet-in-a-tunnel sounds, build an A/DA or an MXR 117. This may not do those, but it is chock full of weird and wonderful crazy space sounds that are surprisingly musical. It wasn't too difficult to calibrate, either. I would recommend using an oscilloscope and a signal generator for setting the bias on the Delay Board, but you don't need expensive lab-grade equipment- I used a cheap DSO138 scope and XR2206 signal generator kit from Amazon and they worked fine. They may not be sufficient for every project, but they're great for getting your feet wet without spending a lot of money.

1. As far as I can tell they're functionally identical to the original Panasonic parts, and they'll work perfectly fine in place of the MN3207 wherever that chip is called for. And yes, the letter prefix designates the manufacturer- the MN3207 was made by Matsushita/Panasonic, the BL3207 is made by Belling, and the V3207 is made by Coolaudio. It should be noted that the MN prefix is also used by Xvive on their BBD clones, although they don't currently make a 3207.

2. I used the Coolaudio V3207D/V3102D. This wasn't so much a matter of preference- any 3207 should work fine- but rather because they're what Small Bear had in stock at the time and I had a good experience with them in a couple other projects.

3. You seem to have forgotten the link. As long as it's from a reputable seller it's probably fine, though- avoid EBay unless you have no other options.

4.I didn't bother with a regulated power supply, I just plugged it straight into my One Spot that it's gonna run off of anyway and didn't have any issues. A nice bench power supply is a nice piece of kit to have, though, and the one you listed should work just fine.

[Josemitejam]

Great! All fantastic information!

So here's the only 3207 I could find outside of eBay...

https://cabintechglobal.com/v3207d

Seems like a good site - any thoughts or site suggestions? Seems like the big ones are small bear, mouser, Newark and digikey - but I couldn't find any there either. Am I missing something when searching? Would you be able to send a link (I'm not sure if that's against forum policy though)?


Thanks again!

[garcho]

https://stompboxparts.com/semiconductors/v3207d-bbd-ic/

[Josemitejam]

Ahh there it is! Thanks!

[bluebunny]

I've used Cabintech in the past and would be happy to do so again.

[Josemitejam]

Another question:

I accidentally bought only one 22k trimpot from mouser, it's the "square" one, as smallbear lists it. It looks like this:

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/trimpot_square

Can I just use one of these instead?

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/cermet-trimpot/

It seems to me that the only difference would be the shape. They're both 22k.


Thanks!!


Joe

[garcho]

The "square" trim pot is a precision trim pot. You have to turn it a million times to get from one extreme to the other. They're usually the right way to go since often the point of a trim pot is to fine tune something. They also hold their position better.
If fine tuning and package layout doesn't matter, then you can use the 2nd one you listed. I use those all the time. You might want to hot glue the trimmer in place once you get it where you want it.

[Invertiguy]

Another question:

I accidentally bought only one 22k trimpot from mouser, it's the "square" one, as smallbear lists it. It looks like this:

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/trimpot_square

Can I just use one of these instead?

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/cermet-trimpot/

It seems to me that the only difference would be the shape. They're both 22k.


Thanks!!


Joe

Well, yes and no, depending on how much kludgery you're comfortable with doing. From an electronics perspective it'll work fine- the circuit doesn't care about form factor, although it is harder to fine-tune things with a single turn trimpot than with a multi-turn one. The problem is that it won't fit in the holes on the board (or really nicely on the board at all, since those are meant to lay flat). You can probably bend the leads to make it work, although you might have to solder some cut resistor leads on to them in order to add length. If you have the trimpot on hand it might be worth messing with to save shipping costs on one part, but if you're gonna have to order it anyway you may as well just get the right part to begin with.

Also, the first trimpots you linked are close, but not exactly the ones you want- the leads are in the wrong configuration. You want the ones with the leads in a straight line- either the Bourns 3266Y or the Bourns 3296W, depending on if you want a 12 turn or a 25 turn trimpot.

[Josemitejam]

Thanks Invertiguy! And sorry for the late replay!

I just got my regulated power supply - stoked to calibrate this thing!