2 unsuccessful builds with the same problems

[markymayhem]

I've built the muffer:  http://www.muzique.com/schem/muff.gif   
and the bazz fuss:   http://www.home-wrecker.com/bazz.html

and I'm having the same problem with each.  bypass works perfecly, but when I switch the effect on, it just seems to make the signal much quieter.  I started another topic on the muffer, and it continues with the bazz fuss here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=50267.20
but the basics are this:  I didn;t use the exact components in the muffer, I did in the bazz.  the muffer was my first build, first perfboard layout, and my soldering wasn't great, I put the components to close together.  The bazz, I spaced everything WAY out, was super careful soldering, etc...  On both, I put a ground wire on the board that I tied every ground, on and off-board to.  I may be doing somthing wrong there.. Also I could have the pot wired in backwards... but I don't think so..  My voltages are correct on the muffer.. don't have refernce for the bazz fuss..  all part values are correct..

HELP!!!!!!!!!!

[343 Salty Beans]

I'd imagine it's just a simple wiring mistake. Try tracing your wiring with these offboard wiring options from tonepad.com:

http://tonepad.com/project.asp?id=35

Click the link under 'layouts' and then download the PDF file. There's several different ways to wire in this document; check your wiring against this. When I first started, I wired the 3PDT the wrong way. If you're only getting bypassed sound and no sound when the effect is on, there's a good chance it's just a matter of wiring.

[tweaked]

Post pics too - that would make it easiest for others to help

[markymayhem]

OK.. I am using the first wiring shcematic off the chart listed..  It appears I've gone it correctly, except for the grounds..  I'm not sure about them.  I am using a plastic chassis for the bazz and an old cuban cigar box for the muffer so I can't connect any grounds though the chassis...    Looking at the wiring chart.. I see no connections for a pot..  Here's a description of my offboard wiring of the muffer.. pics to follow.
ouput jack sleeve to a ground wire on the board, tip to sw1-#2.  input jack sleeve to ground wire on board. ring to batt -, tip to sw1-#5.  sw1-#1 to input cap, sw1#4 to middle of 100k pot. sw1-#3 & #6 connected together.  cennector #3 on the pot goes to ground wire on board, and #1 on the pot goes to output cap.  oh abd 9v+ to 9v+ on board..

[markymayhem]

I can't figger out how to post pics.. so I'm going to host them offsite for a while.. here's the links:

http://www.healthylifeandplanet.info/1.jpg
http://www.healthylifeandplanet.info/2.jpg
http://www.healthylifeandplanet.info/3.jpg

we've got one angle on the whole muffer,  a close up of the back of the board, and another angle on the whole box.

thanks!

[petemoore]

  "Debugging' Page is bound to produce some helpful content.
  I've had 'no signal' troubles that were...
  No power source connected..
  Volume pot or other pot [capable of shunting all signal to ground] turned all the way down.
 

[markymayhem]

I went through the debugging page and posted results for the muffer at the other thread.  Mabye I'm not being clear.  It's not that I'm getting no output when I switch the effect on.. It just makes my guitar very quiet, with no effect.  And i've moved the pot.

[petemoore]

I went through the debugging page and posted results for the muffer at the other thread.
  Maybe it will illicit responses there then.

[Jay Doyle]

See your other thread. I think your transistors are in there wrong. Check the pinouts.

[petemoore]

0.00 at all parts of the transistor @ 20v, .02 @ collector @ 2v
  I can't make out what is referenced by that...I just randomly chose voltages for this example:
  Battery or power source 9.2 vdc
  C 4.54v  [enter the voltage difference measured from ground to C here]
  B 2.15v  [enter your base voltage
  E 0.0v    [and emitter
  enter the battery V+ reference voltage, and each transistor pin voltage as measured with 1 DMM lead clipped to ground, the other lead to each pin as voltage measurements are noted.

[oldrocker]

How's is your audio probe working?  When using a probe where is the input signal getting to or not getting to?

[petemoore]

http://www.muzique.com/schem/muff.gif
  0.00 at all parts of the transistor
  This could be that a ground or V+ connection isn't made, check with DMM beep mode that all three marked grounds, and both of the I/O jack sleeves have ground, as well as the battery -.
  the bottoms of both resistor leads [100k and 150ohm] are ground.
  V+ connects only to the top of the 10k resistor.
  Test continuity between battery clip button and V+ at the 10k there.
  Set DMM for 20k resistance, test that there is ~10k between the V+ and collector.
  Test the 150 ohm between Gnd and emitter with DMM @ 200ohm/2k range.
  You should see ~470k resistance between the B/C pins.
  And 100k between the base and Gnd.
  You can take the 10uf and diodes out and have an amp circuit - the Muff clipping diodes, as long as there are no stray connections [another thing to test for, but seeing no voltage on any transistor pins makes me think one of the PS connections isn't made]...
  Also...a great test almost anytime, exp. when just about to apply power FTFirst time, is test for NON continuity between battery clip +/-.
 

[markymayhem]

OK.. muffer voltages... I had another problem there, and you all are refrencing the first post of my voltages.  I''ll re-post the correct voltages on the muffer here.  Thanks for the tips, pete I will try all of them here in a few minutes.  As for my 'audio probe' I am using my finger while the effect is plugged in and switched on and listening for clicks at the amp...  Not the best method, I know.

E - .02v
B - .5V
C - 4.98V

Batt- 9.48V

[markymayhem]

OK.. new voltages for the muffer, as per pete's suggestions..
Battery - 9.72V
between v+ and the collector, I show -20ohms
E - .07v
B - .68v
C - 5.5v
I got a reading of 1.116 while set at  2k while testing the 150ohm resistor
-.676 @ 2m-ohms  between base and collector
-67.9 @ 200K-ohms on the 100k between base and ground
No continuity between battery clips..

[markymayhem]

I don't want to give up on this one...

[petemoore]

OK.. new voltages for the muffer, as per pete's suggestions..
Battery - 9.72V
between v+ and the collector, I show -20ohms
E - .07v  Looks about right for an emitter w/150ohms to ground.
B - .68v  Could use to be higher, almost .6v above emitter, not too bad?
C - 5.5v  Actually a workable number here, slightly high...
*I got a reading of 1.116 while set at  2k while testing the 150ohm resistor
-.676 @ 2m-ohms  between base and collector
-67.9 @ 200K-ohms on the 100k between base and ground
  * I'm having trouble interpreting this text...
No continuity between battery clips.. Always good...
  You DO have V+ from battery connecting to the 10k [not - battery pole ie reverse battery polarity]...your texts have alot of '-' ...example "Battery -9.72" written like this indicates negative polarity...the red lead of the Bclip goes to the 10k, black to ground..

[markymayhem]

OK
Battery = 9.72v
v+ to collector -20 ohms
1.116 @  2kohms on 150ohm resistor
-.676 @ 2m-ohms  between base and collector
-67.9 @ 200K-ohms on the 100k between base and ground

Those - actually indicate - polarity, and are not just confusing spacing 

[petemoore]

OK
Battery = 9.72v
v+ to collector -20 ohms This looks like a resistance reading taken betwen collector and V+ and should be 10k
1.116 @  2kohms on 150ohm resistor   [maybe meter reads funny, but close enough to be a 'small emitter resistor in any case I think.
-.676 @ 2m-ohms  between base and collector [this reading taken with the DMM set to 2 meg range, equating to 676k, 470k is what's marked on the schematic, but it's still a 'big resistor to bias the base with.
-67.9 @ 200K-ohms on the 100k between base and ground
  Is this one Brown Black Yellow? that reading = 67.9k...
  Could be the meter reads funny, but these readings look fairly workable.
  Resistance tests only tell what 'ThaT' resistor reads [and only as long as there is no alternate path for current to travel through the circuit instead of through the installed resistor]
  Those - actually indicate - polarity, and are not just confusing spacing...not sure what to make of this, resistance readings and resistors have no polarity.
  Red lead goes to V+, Black Lead to Gnd from Battery clip. NPN Neg gnd using NPN si transistor.
  Voltage measurements require a reference to be applicable, V+ 'is' what the battery reads under circuit load [connected to circuit], which'd ~be about the same as lone battery voltage [this circuit won't load a battery down much].
  Seems like it should be about working...audio probe tell any stories?
  Volume control...gotta turn that up too, I forget to do that sometimes, dial it toward the lug coming off the output cap.

[markymayhem]

You know, I thought the - readings looked strange.  Mabye I am measuring wrong??

[markymayhem]

Thanks for your help everyone!  I bought the tweak-o kit from Small Bear.  I am hoping that upon building it I will discover my error with these designs.  Pics & Report (hopefully  ) soon