Digitech detune?!?

[comfortably_numb]

I used to have a digitech RP-12 back when I was into digital effects (I was young).  I sold it to buy some nice analog stompboxes.  In retrospect, it did some freakin cool stuff, though the distortion was very poor.  Anyway, something it did that I thought was quite cool was a detune.  THIS IS NOT WHAMMY!!!  What it did was detune the signal by a matter of cents (which was adjustable) and blend that with the dry signal.  By varying the amount of detune, you could achieve a thicker sound (chorusing without a moving phase) or full on "beating."  Since you could select the amount changed in degree by cent, you could actually dial in the exact beat frequency for a particular pitch.

I was thinking recently that this might be useful, and wondered if it was possible in the analog domain.  I don't need precise control that the digital detuner offered, just a simple "amount" knob, along with a blend and level would be perfect. 

Anyone know where I might find something like this, or what avenue I might pursue in trying to acheive this sound?

Thanks a million!

[Pushtone]

By varying the amount of detune, you could achieve a thicker sound (chorusing without a moving phase) or full on "beating."  Since you could select the amount changed in degree by cent, you could actually dial in the exact beat frequency for a particular pitch.

Great idea for guitar if I'm catching your drift.
This would be a very interesting kind of effect you don't notice until you turn it off.

This is exactly what I've been doing for years to get the super-sized kick drum sound.
I used to do it with an Eventide Harmonizer.
These days folks are doing it in a DAW.

I wonder if the Small Clone Chorus could do this for live guitar?
It certainly has more than enough pitch offset if the LFO could stop oscillating.
And what about the same type of buffered blend control the Scambler uses.

I have a Small Clone Chorus on the bench right now and I'm looking at its LFO.
I'm grasping at straws here but...

Could the output of the LFO be rectified to DC to stop the oscillations?
There is probably a better choice than this.

[jonathan perez]

the whammy has the same preset, and im not talking about the detune setting. i use it for my chorus needs ALL of the time. its the 3rd up setting...somewhere in the middle produces an amazing chorus effect, sans moving phase.

[Pushtone]

I haven't heard this Whammy preset but I think that is beyond the amount of detune c_n is talking about.

If you mean "somewhere in the middle" to a major 3rd, that would be around 200cents or a wholestep.
Perhaps you mean "somewhere in the middle" of the treadle travel which would be impossible
to say exactly how much pitch change is going on. So I guess you set the treadle by ear to where it sounds "right", right?

I detune DAW tracks by 5 to 10 cents of pitch offset to produce a thicker sound without sounding like a chorus.
After 10 cents it starts to sound like and effect to me.

Just my two cents 

[jonathan perez]

well, its a blended signal, so its not totally pitch detune.  but yeah, its sort of by ear to find the place where it hardly beats, and doubles the original guitar by slight detune, rather than time delay. i dig it...

[Sir H C]

Without modulation it would be really hard.  Would need to use something like a bucket-brigade delay (two of them) with the clocks modulated with a sawtooth so that all the delays are a bit fast or slow (detune up or down).  Then you cross-mix between the two before they hit the ends and have to be reset for the clock.  I think this is how the ADA harmonizer worked and it was a beast.

[Processaurus]

Without modulation it would be really hard.  Would need to use something like a bucket-brigade delay (two of them) with the clocks modulated with a sawtooth so that all the delays are a bit fast or slow (detune up or down).  Then you cross-mix between the two before they hit the ends and have to be reset for the clock.  I think this is how the ADA harmonizer worked and it was a beast.

Thats the boss DC-2, except the LFO is a triangle wave that gets inverted and drives the second BBD's clock.  More complex than the average stompbox, but could be a great project.  I tried a similar thing with two small clones, inverting the LFO from the first one, and sending that to the second one.  I used a dual gang pot for the depth on each one so that the biasing in the LFO inverter wouldn't get messed up.  One of those projects that the options got so complex it was too hard to choose what to incorporate into a box...

Seems like you could lash any pair of cheap analog choruses together in that way.

As far as store bought, I know the boss PS-3 has a setting where you can detune a voice up, and down.  The PS-5 can detune one voice, its actually a nice, musical sounding effect, its less typical sounding than normal chorus.

I wonder if the Small Clone Chorus could do this for live guitar?
It certainly has more than enough pitch offset if the LFO could stop oscillating.

The LFO is what makes the pitch bend, because its just a short analog delay with the delay time being changed by the LFO.  Just like when you turn the time knob on a delay as you play, and get pitch bending.  If you stop the LFO, you just get a static (short, 10ms-30ms) delay.

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

If I understand it rightly, we are talking about a frequency shifter (though only by a small amount).
This can be done with a multiplier chip & a wide range 90 deg all pass filter. Calls for precision caps (or else some clever measurements & customising of resistor values).
One of these circuits was used in the ETI magazine "howl round stabiliser' to put 5Hz shift on a PA output to stop feedback.

[MartyMart]

The old Boss MZ-2 "Metal zone" does this, has a couple of positions on a pot for
2x types of "doubling" - sort of detune without modulation.
You can get some thick Metal sounds from it - the distortion sucks though !!
David Gilmour used to use them !!

MM