How does your DIY pedal sit in the mix?

[rousejeremy]

   I just got back from a gig where I used my DIY pedals. An MXR booster housed in an old cigarette tin, Silicon Fuzz Face, and an Octave up/Intermodulator. The Octave Up was based off a Doug Deeper design with an added emitter follower and an LPB Boost to increase gain, all played through a Fender Blues Jr.

   The first thing that really stood out was the sound of the Fuzz Face. At home here it sounds kinda fuzzy but more like a distortion with the gain on 10. At the gig, I had the gain around 7 and it was a pure fuzz tone. What a difference it made to actually hear it in context. My only gripe is the noise it produced. I have it in a plastic enclosure that has been shielded with aluminum foil. Maybe that's the issue?

   Now, the Octave Up/Intermodulator. At home it sounds fine, good octave up effect around the 12th fret and pseudo ring modulator sounds with arpeggios. At the gig it dropped all the bottom end out and had a shrill piercing tone. I'm thinking of trying a Green Ringer instead for the Octave tones.

   Has anyone else built a pedal that sounded great at home but at an actual performance was somewhat disappointing?

[mth5044]

I don't think I've found a pedal (both DIY and production) that doesn't sound different at home levels compared to gig volume levels. If you're a gig player, I think it's really important to try out a pedal at giging volume levels before you put it on your board. High volume can really change a pedals character, especially drives and fuzzs, or so I have found.

[nosamiam]

I'm more of a bass player than a guitar player--although these days I don't really play either one much--mostly keys.

Anyway, this is an everyday thing with bass players who use effects. They sound great on their own, but at rehearsal and gigs the bass becomes inaudible when everyone else is playing. Some sort of signal splitter like the ROG Splitter-Blend fixes the problem right up.

[rousejeremy]

   My Rat does the same thing. The tone that sounds good at home is unbearable live, and the live tone is crap at home.

   

[SonicVI]

ye olde fletcher-munson curves, we hear differently at different volume levels.

[Taylor]

Maybe this already exists, but perhaps a useful tool would be a "Fletcher-Munson simulator", which would have a knob that simulated the change in how we hear frequencies as volume goes up.

It would be tough to do it really accurately, so it would be more realistic to aim for a reasonable approximation.

This would only help us know what to expect at a show, but wouldn't really solve it. Perhaps more useful would be an anti-Fletcher (we could call it The Felcher) which would boost the frequencies that we hear as attenuated when playing at high volume.

As I'm thinking about this, I'm wondering if this really does anything that an EQ can't do... 

[rousejeremy]

You would need some sort of anti-felcher device.

[SonicVI]

You would need some sort of anti-felcher device.

anti-felcher?   

[Taylor]

So the anti-Fletcher is the Felcher. What, then, is an anti-Felcher?

Answer: most humans.

[rousejeremy]

How does a Green Ringer perform at live volumes? Is there a loss of bottom end?

[Vitrolin]

you know some hifi equipment has a LOUD or LOUDNESS botton, this button simulates the frequency responce we experience when when we her sound(music) at at a high level(gigging), what it actually does is it accentuates high and low ends, so if your homebrew sounds good at home, make some sort of a filter to attenuate highs and low, then again things sound wery different in different enviroments due to space, temperature, reflection, absorbtion etc.

heres the curves they illustrate the energy (in sound presure level SPL) necesary for different frequencies to get percieved equally.

[SonicVI]

Or wear earplugs. That'll attenuate highs.   Problem with making it sound like the bedroom at gig levels is out in the audience it won't be as loud as it is to you on stage and you risk making yourself sound like poo. The PA will also transmit your poo.

[liquids]

I don't have it down to a science...But I really recomend, wherever possible, to play along to records...not just for coping licks, but for tone.  Likewise, step away from your amp a few feet and hear it 'in the room.'  On the other hand, I don't recommend aiming your speaker(s) straight at your head a foot or two away, as that is as bad and estimate of  your tone as it is a micing technique.

Turn your stereo up and play guitar along to it, ideally in a genre/mix of instruments similar to your playing style and band....  That will get you a much better idea of what frequencies make it 'through' with other instruments added.     

I know that a mastered CD is different than a live mix, sure, and a lot of tone guys poo-poo this idea for that reason.  Don't do it with some glossy sheen sounding over-produced children's record, no, that won't work to well, unless you are playing karaoke guitar to tracks     But I've spent a lot of time playing to records with the stereo volume up high as is reasonable and my amp competing for an even volume  (even volume on 2 is far closer to the live tone  than .5), and found that the settings I've gotten from there rarely need much tweaking to keep everything sounding good to the other guys I'm playing with and soundman. 

Last but not least, don't fear the amp's mid knob!  It's your friend.  Running it low is rarely advised, as a rule of thumb, turn it up to compensate for lower volumes. 

[captntasty]

Last but not least, don't fear the amp's mid knob!  It's your friend.  Running it low is rarely advised, as a rule of thumb, turn it up to compensate for lower volumes.

I found playing live that bass was always lacking (on stage at least) and most amps/speakers will accentuate highs - tone is a never-ending quest.  Hopefully you have a sound man that can accentuate the proper frequencies.  I can't speak from a scientific standpoint, although I know it exists, the louder your volume, the more you will hear highs and need to eq accordingly.  Does this make any sense?

[rousejeremy]

Makes me wonder what my favorite guitar tones would sound like isolated from the rest band. Eric Johnson and David Gilmour (especially the Division Bell) are my favorite sounds, and are very midrangey. 

Liquids, your comment about playing with a CD loudly is good advice. I'll just have to find some good trio recordings to compare with.

[ninjaaron]

just to note, the frequency curves aren't the only thing that are going to affect the way you sit in the mix, it also has alot to do with the frequencies your bandmates are generating.

My strategy: Err on the side of mids. Cut bass the most, because the Bass player will make you sound huge without having to put out your own (on the occasion that I perform w/o a bassist, I generally do try to pump up the bass a bit). Secondly, cut off the fizzy highs (maybe everything above 10-12k or somewhere in there). I like to just send them strait to ground through a cap. Then adjust the other highs and mids too taste. Flat mids will often give a pleasing scooped sound live. Boosted mids will make you cut like crazy. Sounds boxy at home, but you'll forget your woes as soon as the drums and bass kick in.

IMO cutting bass back a bit is probably the most important thing out of all that crap I just uttered. If you want fatness, lower mids are where it's at anyway (from maybe 500-900Hz).

[m-theory]

It took me about 2 years, and dozens of builds to zero in on what worked for me.  I found that the only way for me to be sure about a given circuit was to box it up and put it on a stage floor.  Eventually, I got to recognize what the circuit had to sound like at home, in order for it to be a viable candidate for live use, but even that only goes so far. 

For instance, I REALLY liked the Red Fuzz as a gainier step above overdrive.  It had the right amount of gain, the right voicing, and was nice and tight.  However, it didn't have QUITE enough output for me, so I kept searching. 

I also REALLY liked the Hwy 89...GREAT gain, TREMENDOUS output, great voicing.  However, that one got a bit squirrely and feedbacky at high volumes. 

I eventually settled on a crunchbox that I tweaked a bit, and that, for me, is "perfection" in a gainer circuit. 

I've gone through this same process of trial and error for my favorite overdrive and booster as well.  This stuff is so subjective, and everybody uses their gear differently anyway, so it's impossible to just rely entirely upon the word of someone on an internet forum, or expect the first circuit you build to be "perfection" in every way. 

[FlyingZ]

Best said with pictures. Not included are the sold, given away, and returned pedals over 20 years 

This is what I gig with now:



The not worthy for gigs but really fun at home

[rousejeremy]

I discovered why my fuzz sounded strange onstage but not at home. I play with low wattage tube amps and the first thing in my chain is an MXR microamp. I leave it on to drive the tubes. When this is used with the fuzz, the sound is squishy noisy and not easy to handle. Guess I should have noticed this earlier.