paint baking

[JFX09]

Hello,

I'm a new member here in this lovely knowledge pit and this is my first post.

I've read around here and geo and else but have a question on baking paints.

I went ot the harware store and asked for paint that could be baked (keep in mind i know nothing about paint, among things)
to get a nice durable smooth finish on metal. I have asked for Fire Truck Red. So they sold me this paint wich is Fire Red from
Para and it's rust paint: polyurethane fortified. The guy told me I could bake it no problem. I did. It turned out brownish, oxblood
to be polite.

So i painted a few more coats without baking and it turns out nice Fire Truck Red.  I don't understand, this guy looked like he
knew what he was talking about.

any pointers are welcome. also is applying paint with a brush a big no, cause i did (several thin coats, but it still looks crap)

Thanks in advance

JF

[R.G.]

Some paints change color if they're baked. Some change color if they're baked at too high a temperature or too long. Some don't. Some take higher temperatures than others. Some self level so brush marks don't show. Some have to be sprayed to get a clear gloss finish.

It's like the man said - of course one horse can run faster than another horse; but which ONE? Details matter.

All that being said, go to West Marine and get a quart of Interlux Brightsides topside paint in red. It's expensive - $32 a quart - but it cures in air to a gloss coat and self levels brush marks out to a gloss by itself. And one quart will do a lot of boxes. Prime with a self-etching marine primer first. The cured paint is almost as durable as powder coating, and you can't see brush marks.

[JOHNO]

yeah paint is like that. one can i bought cost 8 bucks and it never drys no matter how long you bake it or air dry it.always get finger prints on the paint.another brand i bought cost 3 bucks and its awsome. really glossy and no finger prints in the paint.my toaster oven has two elements,one on the top and one on the bottom. i only use the bottom one cause the top one burns the paint.keep trying different brands of paint until you find one that works for you.

[Electric_Death]

Let me start by saying this, the key to a good paint job no matter what the technique is........ PATIENCE, lots and lots of patience.
If you bake paint, you need to do so on a low heat. I've done a LOT of painting and it you want it to look professional, it's something you can't rush. Since your paint turned dark, you can assume you had too much heat OR, you left it baking too long. It's likely you left it baking too long because too much heat is indicated by bubbling.

Say you're going to use spray paint, I say go with the cheap Walmart Brand enamel or Rustoleum. They are by far the least toxic in odor and I've been through every brand out there. Another tip is invest the 2-3 bucks in the snap on trigger system. It ensures you'll completely press the nozzle all the way down, you'll tend to ease up on it if you're doing a big job and pressing it by finger.
Now if you want a perfect mirror finish, the best way to achieve this is actually follow the instructions. Hold the can about 18 inches away and apply what literally looks like a fine, powdery dust coat of paint. When you hold the can close, you'll start to get spatter because it builds up on the nozzle due to proximity. Here's where the patience comes. Actually set a timer for 10 minutes, let it go off then go back and give it the exact same level of ridiculously thin coating again. It generally takes about 8-10 coats like this to get a substantial layer on there. Lastly, let it dry for 3-4 days then if you're really dedicated to a pro quality job, apply a gloss of enamel or better yet, polyurethane in the same manner.

I will admit that if you're really really careful, you can get away with doing one final heavy coat of pain(haha I meant paint I swear!) so you get a mirror finish without ever having to take it to the buffing wheel but the risk of screwing up your project, having to strip it down and start all over again from scratch is extremely high. I've painted a lot of beater guitars over the years with spray paint but have in fact gotten some of them perfect when I really took the time to do things right. It also involved using about 3-4 times as many cans of spray paint than the labels always claim based on square foot coverage because of the distance I found myself needing to spray from.

The best option however is this.
Buy a touch up paint sprayer to use on your compressor and of course, don't forget the oil/water filter. Once you get your paint mixed and your spray pattern balanced, it's just a couple sweeps of the hand and you're done unless you're really avid about having an armor of paint on the thing. If not air driven, I'm certain even a cheap electric paint sprayer will do the trick but the bottom line is, even spray can paints are better than using brushes. If you plan to use brushes and want that glass finish, be prepared to spend up to a month because you need to paint it, bake it, sand it then buff it and this means some rather heavy coats due to the level of material you're required to take down. The polishing isn't exactly perfect anyway so, forget everything I just said and stick to a spraying method!

One final note on the clear coat. You always want to use compatible paints. Enamels and lacquers aren't compatible although I've gotten away with it before. Even with compatible paints though, there is the dreaded wrinkle effect I've experienced a half dozen times or so.
You get your color coats nice and perfect, let them dry for a couple days then decide to slap on your clear coat. You clear coat it, come back to check on it say 20 minutes later and suddenly see your paint is nothing but wrinkles! It's because the solvent in your base coat of paint was still evaporating and wrinkled everything when it tried passing through the clear coat you put over top of it. I've baked paint really well at a safe heat and still had this happen.

In a lot of cases, this shouldn't have happened to me but it did. It's sad that someone can actually spend $100 in spray paint and about 3 months painting one guitar due to one uncontrollable and unforeseen catastrophe after another. Stripping them back down is of course the most miserable experience on the face of the earth

All of the above is probably why when it comes to guitars, so many companies are now sticking to wood grains. They instead use a dye which doesn't use any solvents then hit it with a lacquer clear coat. It's much cheaper, much faster and best of all, tends to look much better than solid colors.

[JFX09]

Thank you very much for the replies, very informative (special thanks to E.D. for the really throughout and involved comments, very appreciated, will definitely look to some of those pointers)

More experimenting to do (Why did i even thought it possible to be a simple task is beyond me  )

[Electric_Death]

Any time JFX09, it's one of the topics I've got a lot of experience in.
I'm about to break out the air compressor and do a nice crackle finish. White crackling through black or maybe red crackling through black but rather than the spray paint kits you buy in the store, I hunted down the necessary ingredients so I can use my industrial sprayer and get a showroom finish.

I recently came up with a new finish idea for my newest pedal, I'll post pictures when it's finished. I think it's going to be rather unique and be a real trend setter that gets everyone putting the paint cans down.

[GibsonGM]

I'm a painter, and sometimes do details on metals.  I don't recommend baking paint above 120F (I never bake, I leave enclosures in my furnace room where it's 80F), and probably for no more than 20 minutes unless it's called for on the can.   All the above about brush marks is very true!  Spray painting is the simplest, most effective route...auto paints and primers are durable and you can get a variety of colors.  Krylon Crystal Clear makes a good top coat, or you could TEST using spray poly gloss for a shinier look.    There are also wrinkle spray paints (right at WalMart) and other finishes available.
Follow Electric Death's tips for spraying and you'll get good results.   For "hippie dip" swirl painting, I use Testor's model paints suspended in a small container of water with a tad of Borax added.   Krylon clear is ok over this, don't know about others (they are oil based).   The key to all of this is TIME to dry....more than you think you need.   And a dust-free environment, even a box on its side with the pedal hanging from a coat hanger wire.   

If you want to repaint or reapply gloss, LIGHTLY buff the pedal with 000 or 0000 steel wool first, wiping any metal bits away with a clean dry cloth.  This will prep it and settle any odd areas.   Same for after you apply primer and let it dry.   If using oil-based paints or urethanes, try thinning the stuff 20% with mineral spirits, this will let brush marks settle right out of it - and make it runnier, so look out!!   >;o)  3-4 coats, using less thinner every time.

[JFX09]

well, one thing i can sure make out of this threas is "different folks.." 

I'm toying around with some of your suggestions and also got some inspiration from this fabulous thread that is "Pictures
!"

mucho thanks

jf

[Electric_Death]

If you're going to resurface with steel wool or sand paper, remember to us a fine grit afterward because whatever texture you leave on top of the material you are painting will come right through in the paint you put over top it. If you simply resurface it with steel wool then paint it, your new paint is going to be full of scrapes, scuffs or swirls..basically the pattern in which you used the steel wool. Same with heavy grit papers. If you sand it down with some 120 grit, that's generally not fine enough to paint over and get a smooth finish. Typically you want a 5-600 but when it's metal you might be able to get away with cruder grits.
If you want mirror finish with as little fuss as possible, 1000-1200 grit but you don't get many swipes with this grit before it's saturated with the debris from the material you're resurfacing.

Baking paint, that's something that should be left to industrial shops or auto body shops where the conditions can be easily controlled. I've always used the old furnace room or slapped a space heater in the room the painted item was to dry in and even then, I give it 3-4 days drying time. You want to ensure perfection though, go a full 7 days and I mean literally 24x7. There have been projects I've waited 2 weeks on.

Last night I did some crackle paint tests. You apply your base coat and let it dry. Apply your crackle medium and let it dry. Then finally apply your top coat and it crackles as it dries, allowing your base coat to "crack" through.
Unfortunately, manufacturers aren't as good as they'd like us to believe, lol. Acrylic Enamels only the directions indicate and while that is what I used, a crackling there wasn't.

Just something you should always be prepared for when first getting into painting and experimenting with different finishes and paint mixing, FAILURE!