buffers and their uses !?!?

[1878]

Hello Everyone...

I'd used multi-effects for years because it was 'easier', but I'm glad to say I put my first board together last night. One thing I'm not glad about though, is the tone sucking signal loss. After a quick search I found this...

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=61976.20

which led me to wanting to build this..

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_ic_buffer.pdf

Where abouts on the board is it best to place this thing ?? I've read it should be placed before the first effect in chain OR after distortions/fuzzes OR last in chain but before delay/echo. Oh yeah, I'll be building it without the switch if this makes any difference to your answers.

Thanks in advance.

[rock_god_dan]

I'd put it before the first effect in the chain. But...what pedals do you have in your pedal board? Tube screamers and boss pedals already have buffers, so building another one might not affect the tone-sucking that much. But I'm guessing you have a wah pedal at the beginning of the chain that hasn't been converted to true bypass yet.. If that's the case then go for it. Good luck.

Dan

[1878]

Cheers...

My effects in chain are:

Boss Fuzz > Fender Blender > Double Muff > UglyFace > MXR Dynacomp > DeArmond Volume > Rotovibe > Ibanez Super Metal > Small Stone > Noise Gate > Boss DD-20.

The signal loss/tone suck is quite noticable. I plugged in my old RP7 to guage how much signal was lost and I'll admit I was surprised. I've used really good quality cable and connectors too.

Hope this helps.

[PerroGrande]

First in the chain is always a good place to start, but I'd do a little research and testing before inserting the buffer.

"Tone sucking" is caused by lower than desired input impedance.  It is most notable on whatever is connected directly to the guitar simply because the coils from the pickup are not capable of sourcing a lot of current.  That is, of course, not the only place it can occur, just the most likely.  That said, the first pedal you have in the line is a Boss Fuzz.  Not sure exactly which model, but as Dan correctly pointed out, Boss pedals are always active *and* buffered.  So this makes the "tone suck" via loading the coils less likely.  Unless, of course, you've converted it to true bypass.

My recommendation would be to attempt to isolate the actual root-cause for the tone loss. Start by breaking your chain in half.  Plug your amp in right after the DeArmond Volume.  Compare the amount of tone loss/attenuation to that with the RP7 and with the previous chain.  If you have loss, then isolate further.  You may have one pedal that is creating most of the problem, but it is hiding in the middle of your chain somewhere.  Keep isolating and see if you can find the actual culprit.

[1878]

Thanks for the replies...

The DeArmond Volume was built in the 50's and I suspected it could be an old pot or something dwelling within it that was causing the problem. The Ibanez is an older pedal too. I'll play around with them later. I'm picking the TL071 up tomorrow so I'll get to the bottom of it all soon... hopefully.

Cheers.

[dano12]

Cheers...

My effects in chain are:

Boss Fuzz > Fender Blender > Double Muff > UglyFace > MXR Dynacomp > DeArmond Volume > Rotovibe > Ibanez Super Metal > Small Stone > Noise Gate > Boss DD-20.

There are somewhere between 4 and 6 buffered pedals in that loop depending on the specific model. If it is the cascade of buffers that is causing your problem, perhaps the only solution would be a true-bypass strip to take all the of the buffers out of the chain.

[1878]

Ooh...

I'll try the buffer (cheaper !!) option first. That looks like something to build if the problem doesn't get any better. Could well be something for the future though.

Thanks again.

[antojado]

The boss and ibanez pedals, as the others have said, should already have buffers built into them, and they are always in the signal chain whether the effect is on or off. Adding yet another buffer to the chain probably will not solve your problem.

[PerroGrande]

I'm more inclined at this point to believe that one of the pedals or cables might be dodgy as opposed to having a tone-sucking problem that can be fixed with a buffer. 

Of course, building the buffer will be enlightening and good experience but it may not solve the problem at hand.