Question About Boosters (and a little bit about noise reduction...)

[merc]

I was trying to do some reaserch on Mark Hammer's Chaos, since I've heard some good things about it.  I found this topic that raised a whole bunch of questions for me.  http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=65239.msg516140#msg516140

I don't get boosters.  More accurately, I don't get why to use a booster.  Everywhere I look for an answer to this question, there is the same response.  "It boosts the signal." "It boosts the treble/bass/mid."  I understand that.  But what does boosting the signal do?  It has to be good for something.  In this specific case, mnordbye talks about using a booster with a distortion pedal.

Preferably, i'dd be very happy for any general mods, circuits or tricks which can be added to any pedal, because i have many good sounding distortions which is waiting for me to tweak 'em!

Gain is no problem though, i always have boosters for that. 

In this situation, what's the booster going to do? Is it going to clean up the noise?  Add more gain? Take away gain?

For the question on noise reduction, I read a post in the same topic.

I've had great results following something fuzzy high gain like a Rat or a dist+ with something that has a well defined crunch like a TS or a Zakk Wylde overdrive (with plenty of noise suppression, of course  ).

Alright I understand noise supression obviously suppresses the noise.  What noise? The white noise hiss in the backround? And how is noise supression done?

I appologize for this long list of noob questions, but I really would like to understand what's going on.

[ianmgull]

"What does boosting the signal do?"

If put in front of a tube preamp it will cause your tubes to break up more giving you more distortion.

The bit about noise suppression is that the consequence of running two high gain distortion pedals at the same time is a lot of noise. Think of distortion as a sort of very extreme compression. All the background noise which normally is tolerable is made quite a bit louder from all of the gain stages. Using a noise gate can help to a degree.

In that situation, your guitar signal will [hopefully] be louder than the noise. A noise suppressor/gate either attenuates or completely cuts of all sound below a specific volume. That way when you aren't playing anything there should be less hiss, hum, RF interference or whatever as long as it is below the threshold.

[merc]

Ok, so does that mean since I don't have a tube amp I shouldn't need a booster?
Thanks for the info, it really cleared things up! 

[Mark Hammer]

1) If you start with a noisy signal, ANY gain applied to it will result in more noise reaching the amp, unless that noise is somehow filtered out.

2) All gain is multiplicative.  If I follow a pedal that applies a gain of 20 with another pedal that also applies a gain of 20, then I have multiplied the original signal by 400x.

3) ALL distortion pedals work by providing a signal which exceeds the circuit's ability to cleanly pass that signal.  In a great many (though not all) cases, the limit on how much signal can be cleanly passed is set by some combination of diodes.  When any portion of the signal exceeds what those diodes can cleanly pass, you will hear clipping.

4) Because a guitar signal is not a steady signal like a bench-top signal generator, not all portions of it will have the exact same amplitude.  This means that some portions will exceed the critical threshold to produce clipping, while others will remain below that point.  Generally, more clipping is produced at the beginning of a note/chord than after it has sustained for few moments, since sound dies out over time.

5)  The more gain is applied to the signal, the greater the likelihood that more of what you pick/strum will be above the critical threshold for a longer period after you pick/strum.  Although it is often nothing of the sort, we tend to hear it as being fuzzier, because it lasts long enough for us to hear it.  Moreso than those little blips at the start of pick attack that simply sound like "crisp" tone.  One of the reasons why many like compressors before distortion is because they can maintain the level above the critical threshold for a longer period.

6) Most distortions have enough gain built into them to be able to produce significant clipping with a normal guitar.  Between part-to-part variation in transistor gain, normal tolerances in gain-setting components and clipping diodes, as well as the guitar's output itself, a distortion pedal may fall short of providing the needed degree of boost required to keep enough of the guitar signal above the critical threshold.  If pedal X applies a total gain of, say, 450 and pedal Y (some model, different unit) applies a gain of 420, that may conceivably result in a fuzz that seems to peter out a little earlier over the course of a held note.  Because of the multiplicative-gain rule, sticking a bit of extra gain in another pedal before the distortion can result in significantly more gain applied to the signal overall.  Consequently, something as seemingly benign as a booster/preamp/whateveryouwannacallit with a gain of even 5 (which seems pretty puny on the surface) will elicit some monster sounds from the distortion pedal.  A Distortion+ has a gain of somethng like 230.  Multiply that by 5 and you have some serious clipping potential.

[merc]

Wow!  That's some interesting stuff.  Really helpful.  Thanks! 

[squidsquad]

More reasons for a booster:  say ya have a fuzz...you like the sound...but want more sustain. 
Putting a booster in front of it will give you that. 
Same goes for a low gain distortion pedal (like the Peppermill)....boosting the signal going in will give you more distortion.
Also:  say your pickups sound thin & have a lot of treble. 
A booster w/a low impedance input (LPB) will shave off some high end and fatten things up. 
Conversley:  If your amp is dark sounding...one w/a high impedance input...like a mosfet boost...will allow *sparkle* to be heard.

[mnordbye]

1) If you start with a noisy signal, ANY gain applied to it will result in more noise reaching the amp, unless that noise is somehow filtered out.

2) All gain is multiplicative.  If I follow a pedal that applies a gain of 20 with another pedal that also applies a gain of 20, then I have multiplied the original signal by 400x.

3) ALL distortion pedals work by providing a signal which exceeds the circuit's ability to cleanly pass that signal.  In a great many (though not all) cases, the limit on how much signal can be cleanly passed is set by some combination of diodes.  When any portion of the signal exceeds what those diodes can cleanly pass, you will hear clipping.

4) Because a guitar signal is not a steady signal like a bench-top signal generator, not all portions of it will have the exact same amplitude.  This means that some portions will exceed the critical threshold to produce clipping, while others will remain below that point.  Generally, more clipping is produced at the beginning of a note/chord than after it has sustained for few moments, since sound dies out over time.

5)  The more gain is applied to the signal, the greater the likelihood that more of what you pick/strum will be above the critical threshold for a longer period after you pick/strum.  Although it is often nothing of the sort, we tend to hear it as being fuzzier, because it lasts long enough for us to hear it.  Moreso than those little blips at the start of pick attack that simply sound like "crisp" tone.  One of the reasons why many like compressors before distortion is because they can maintain the level above the critical threshold for a longer period.

6) Most distortions have enough gain built into them to be able to produce significant clipping with a normal guitar.  Between part-to-part variation in transistor gain, normal tolerances in gain-setting components and clipping diodes, as well as the guitar's output itself, a distortion pedal may fall short of providing the needed degree of boost required to keep enough of the guitar signal above the critical threshold.  If pedal X applies a total gain of, say, 450 and pedal Y (some model, different unit) applies a gain of 420, that may conceivably result in a fuzz that seems to peter out a little earlier over the course of a held note.  Because of the multiplicative-gain rule, sticking a bit of extra gain in another pedal before the distortion can result in significantly more gain applied to the signal overall.  Consequently, something as seemingly benign as a booster/preamp/whateveryouwannacallit with a gain of even 5 (which seems pretty puny on the surface) will elicit some monster sounds from the distortion pedal.  A Distortion+ has a gain of somethng like 230.  Multiply that by 5 and you have some serious clipping potential.

Good explanations!

Magnus Nordbye