PIO Caps

[tmichutka]

Hey all!  So I often hear about the magic of Paper in Oil (PIO) caps but I have never them so I wanted to ask people's opinions who may have used them or may know more about what makes them superior/identical to standard caps.  The ones I see floating around usually have a +/- 10% rating which is about the same as newer caps, right?  Can they really sound that much better?

The reason I'm asking is because I just bought a Gibson Les Paul Custom (not VOS), and I kinda like the tone, but I hear people raving that if you swap out the stock caps for 22nF PIO caps that you'll pee yourself hearing the difference.  I'd definitely like to swap out the caps for different values (I'll probably also try out the vintage wiring scheme) but I'm curious if people think it's worth the extra $ for PIO caps or if I should just get some decent ceramic caps or something.  Does the material used inside caps really make a difference sonically?

Thanks!

[zombiwoof]

You're not going to get a definitive answer on this one, there is a lot of debate about the topic around, some people hear a difference between cap types in guitars, others scoff at the idea.  If you check out the Les Paul Forum, some of those guys are fanatical about using old Sprague Bumblebees in their guitars and will settle for nothing else, they pay out the wazoo for those caps.  My feeling is there may be a difference in the frequency range that different types, brands, and values of caps produce in the circuit, but I'm not going to pay $100 for something just because it's what was used in the fifties.  I do use Russian PIO caps in some of my guitars and like them, they are more recent manufacture than the old BB's and such, I think they sound just as good, and the values are closer to the marked value because they're not 40-50 years old.  These are what are inside the most popular BB replicas that are selling for over $40 a pair, I don't care what they look like, as no one is going to be seeing inside my control cavity (sounds dirty!) but me.  I think that good poly film caps can sound good in a guitar, too.

If you're interested in the Russian PIO caps, check out my ad in the For Sale section, I've got some extras I'm selling.

Good Luck,
Al

[tmichutka]

Thanks Al!  Yeah, that's kinda what I figured, no definitive answer to the question, just a lot of varied opinions.  I'm actually still contemplating whether I'm going to keep the LP Custom at this point because the first one I got was a dud and I'm waiting on a replacement so we'll see how that one measures up.  It really is true about the unreliability of the Custom Shop craftsmanship, isn't it?!?  If I do end up keeping this second one I'll PM you about those caps.  Thanks again for the info!

[afrogoose]

You could just put a set of alligator clips on the tone pot and then while you are playing you could make some quick switches between ceramic, plastic and PIO.  I suspect that the difference would be really, really, small (if any at all).  Even better have someone else do the switching so that you can't see what's what.  Then you can pick one that you like (which will probably be the least expensive  )

[tmichutka]

  I love your idea about the "blind taste test"!  That's a really good idea actually!  I'm seriously going to use that!  You're right, I mean if I don't know which cap's going in there then I'm not going to have the bias like "everyone says this one's supposed to sound better so I think this one sounds better."  Thanks for the suggestion!