What's the legal moral ethical of...

[soggybag]

I was thinking about having PCBs made. The layout is my own the circuit by someone else. Is there a moral, ethical, legal dilemma?

[Processaurus]

You'll probably get pages of responses, ha ha, but as I understand if the artwork is yours, there is no copyright problem, and if the circuit isn't patented there is no patent infringement.  As for morally, as someone who obviously appreciates the circuit and the person who made it, the clearest way to be a person of substance would be just to get in touch with them about your plans involving their work.

[slideman82]

I agree with that, also, take a look at famous boutique pedals, most are using the same circuit as old ones.

[soggybag]

Yeah I knew this had the potential to become a long thread. I was just looking for some guidelines.

The cost of having some boards made is high, and I'd need to buy more than I need for myself. So, I figured I might be able to sell a few to offset the cost. Of course this is where feathers might get ruffled...

[culturejam]

You've probably already read this, but here it is again anyway:
http://www.muzique.com/clones.htm

If you created the layout artwork from scratch, I don't see how there *should* be any hurt feelings or bruised egos or screaming angry mobs. However, just to make sure you don't get a bunch of angry people piling on you and calling you a heartless thief, you should run it by the designer of the circuit first. Better safe than vilified. 

[$uperpuma]

I make it a point to seek out the original designer if possible and leave the compensation for their IP in their hands. So far everyone from Tim Escobedo to Forrest Mims III have been very fair/gracious when I've contacted them about licensing.

[slacker]

I can't see that anyone would have a problem about it if you're just selling a few extras to cover your costs. The trouble normally starts when someone sets themselves up a boutique pedal maker and blatantly profits off other people's work.

Like everyone else has said, just run it past the designer, especially if they are a member here.

[DougH]

Legally you're okay. Morally and ethically it's up to you. If I was going to sell PCB's of someone else's design I'd a) contact them about it first and b) offer them a percentage as a license fee.

[slideman82]

That's fair, Doug!

[JDoyle]

I've figured out that arguing ethics, especially with some who feel that everyone's work should be free for the taking/stealing, is like herding cats, so I'm done with that BUT...

Just to cover all of the bases, if you did this to someone without getting permission, and they wanted to be a complete and total pain in your a$$, and had enough money to do so - the arguement that your layout, though created entirely by you, is a derivative work of the original schematic, could be enough to get it into a courtroom (in short: your PCB wouldn't exist, and if fact couldn't exist, without the designer's previous artwork - the schematic; ergo, it's a derivitive work of the original schematic artwork despite it's actual visual appearance being entirely/completely different.). Who will win? Who knows, really. Does it make sense? To a human, no. But to someone who reads the law in the most literal fashion possible (i.e. attorneys with half a brain) - it still may not make sense, but that doesn't preclude the ability to make the arguement, or more importantly, the RIGHT to make the argument, in a court of law.

Keep in mind that the amount of money you will have to spend to deal with the mess of it all may be the plaintiff's goal all along.

Bottom line: ask permission and get the deal in writing, and signed; and if you really want to be safe, notarized.

Regards,

Jay Doyle

PS - I didn't mean to imply that you were stealing anything at all. The fact that you are ASKING about it already lifts you far above the muck. And to me, the fact that you DESIGNED your own PCB is enough - generally, those that steal circuits couldn't design a way to drain a battery, which, I guess, is why they steal...

[soggybag]

I wanted to print up some PCBs for the UglyFace and Rebote 2. Maybe about 10 or 20 of each. The layout is my own.

It seems there are a few versions of PT2399 based delays around. I guess I could try and design one myself. It might look similar. An op-amp input and output buffer plus the PT2399 seems like an obvious idea.

The UglyFace on the other hand seems to have a unique arrangement, that doesn't really work another way. Though I guess you could use a different type of input buffer. The use the of the Reset pin, in the way the Uglyface uses it, is sort of core to the unique sound it produces.

[carrejans]

soggybag, I would just email the guys, to ask if they are ok with it.
Are you going to make it like your other empty boards, with jacks and switch directly on the board? That would be nice.
Do you still have some left of these 1590B-size boards? If you are interested in trading, let me know. (I don't have paypall; I could trade with lots of stuff, germanium, switches, ...)

[soggybag]

Hey carrejans, that's exactly the idea. I'm almost out boards from the first run. So, I thought Iget some new ones printed up. And I thought, I should make a few with effects that people like. It seemed there were enough layouts for the standard stuff. So I wanted to pick some popular but less common effects.