Question about PNP blue

[Evad Nomenclature]

I am getting ready to take my first shot at etching, all the stuff is on it's way.
I did realize something though;  I don't have a laser printer *_*
I'm assuming that you can't use inkjet (or can you?)
If it's the toner that needs to be on the sheet, can I use a photocopier at staples or something to do the printing?

I've looked at the tonepad.com photoessay on it and stuff, I know what to do, just wondering about that
thanks.

[theundeadelvis]

Yes you can use a copier as long as it uses toner.

[ianmgull]

Before I had a laserjet I would just print my transfers on regular paper with an inkjet. Then go to Kinko's (if you're in the states) or somewhere that does printing. Ask them for x number of copies on photo paper. The reason I say that is most places won't let you put some funky looking blue paper in their copier.

All copiers that I'm aware of are laserjets. If they let you use PnP great, if not photo paper isn't all that expensive.

[Evad Nomenclature]

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you can use photo paper as a substitute for PNP blue?
Or am I completely missing the point?

[ianmgull]

Exactly. Just print on the shiny side, clean your board as normal, and iron on for a couple minutes. After it adheres, I run it under cold water for a few minutes while rubbing the paper off with my thumb. Don't try to peel it from the edge, just keep it wet and rub the paper away. This is what I use for board etching, works great every time.

I have had problems getting it to work for enclosure etching. I can never get the paper to stick to the box. I might try PnP for that next time.

[Evad Nomenclature]

Well shit...
I wish I knew that before I dropped the 20 bucks for a bunch of pnp sheets.. I have photo paper coming out of my a$$!
(not literally, as that could be quite painful)  Oh well.  All good.  Thanks for the tip!

[Mark Hammer]

You can use pretty much anything that:

a) will allow laser toner to be fused with it, and

b) consists of a substrate of some kind with an emulsion over top of it.

The basic mechanism underlying toner-transfer is that when you have three possible bonds - emulsion to substrate, toner to emulsion, toner to copper - the emulsion to substrate bond is the weakest of the three.

So what has a substrate and an emulsion?  Well, PnP, but also glossy photo paper, and as some have found out and reported here, "shiny" paper from magazine can work too.  Since magazine paper and glossy photo paper have a fibrous substrate (i.e., paper made out of teeny chips), it tends to provide much lower "resolution" than PnP.  PnP is essentially an acetate sheet identical to what is used in overhead transparencies, coated with a blue emulsion that breaks away from the acetate sheet (the substrate in this case) very easily and in very small particles that yield smooth and precise borders in comparison to coatings on top of paper.

All of these methods will "work", but have the following pros and cons:

PnP is costly and often not readily available.  Photocopy outlets tend to be wary of it because it doesn't look familiar and often don't want to print your copies, even though they would make overhead transparencies for you without batting an eye.

Photo paper varies in quality, but is generally much cheaper, and certainly more readily available on a same-day basis than PnP.  Tends to produce a less precise image, but generally adequate unless you have traces tightly clustered with little breathing room, or has traces running between IC pins.  Also tends to be harder for people to know when they've completely transferred the pattern, relative to PnP.

Magazine paper is always available, costs nothing if you've already bought the magazine.  A little more fragile than photo paper and PnP, and can be difficult to tell if the toner image is "robust" enough on the to-be-transferred page unless you pick your backgrounds carefully (desert, sky, or winter landscapes preferred!).  Also a little difficult to tell when the image has been completely transferred.

Is your "overpurchase" of PnP a waste?  Nah.  It is good practice to stick a bunch of patterns on each PnP sheet and print out multiples of each pattern on that sheet just in case your ironing/transfer skills are not what you'd like and you botch it on the first or second try.  You can also make a lot of friends by giving them PnP patterns you've made.  Heck, I'm sure there are plenty of folks who wouldn't mind swapping you parts for a bunch of PnP layouts mailed in an envelope.  Finally, there will inevitably be patterns where you look at the spacing of traces and think to yourself "Nah, don't wanna risk that on photo paper".

[davent]

Hello,

Here's a great  tutorial on doing Toner Transfer boards by John Lyons. You've no doubt seen pictures of his excellent boards around on this site.

http://www.mrdwab.com/john/How-to-make-PCBs.html

dave

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

"Photocopy outlets tend to be wary of it because it doesn't look familiar and often don't want to print your copies, even though they would make overhead transparencies for you without batting an eye."

The key here is to look the Kinko's drone straight in the eye & say "I need this copied onto my SPECIAL BLUE  SCREEN OVERHEAD PROJECTOR PAPER"