Mods for a Big Muff with less fuzz but tons of sustain anyone ?

[Krinor]

As stated above, I need a Big Muff with less distortion/fuzz but with as much sustain as possible. Also I want more of the inherent "violin-like sustain" tone. That is the sound I want to cultivate with this one. I think starting with a Triangle Era Muff will put me in the ballpark, but does any of you happen to know some great mods which will give less fuzz and more of that nasal sustaining synthlike tone ?

[alex frias]

Maybe you need another kind of distortion...

Anyway, did you test using a low distortion/setting on your BM and with some kind of compressor pedal before it? It is important to pay attention to the gain/output settings as noise floor can be taken to a very annoying level.

[Krinor]

Thanks for your reply.

I know another pedal might do the trick, but I love the way the Big Muff responds. I just want to tailor the sound for a little less hair.
What I am after (I think) is to put the effect of rolling back the toneknob on the guitar down into the pedal instead. Maybe all I need to do is to put some sockets around the tonepot and experiment with different values. The diodes should probably give me some nice compression by themselves, but there might be values and tweaks that are better suited than the usual suspects.

I guess what I asking for here are some superb links to your favorite Big Muff mod sites ;-)

[caress]

just add an input tone knob to your big muff wired like your guitar's tone knob?  simple...

[Mark Hammer]

Distortion = more harmonic content

So, if you want things to sound less fuzzy, then you simply filter the resulting output accordingly.  That can be between stages as well as at the final output.

[Ben N]

Whisker Biscuit?

Or, have you seen the old Ibanez Soundtank FZ5 "'60s Fuzz"? (If you want to check one out, they aren't that common anymore, but are still pretty cheap when they turn up on ebay.) That is basically a BMP with smaller input and coupling caps, some backwards values in the tone stack and FET switching. It sounds like a de-balled BMP, very violinny, close to what you are describing. As Mark suggested, if you can sacrifice the bottom, you can experiment with subbing .01uf interstage coupling caps for the .1s, and mod the tone stack to remove the mid scoop per the AMZ article. If it's still too fizzy and you can't control this with the tone control, maybe try something larger in place of the 470pfs to reduce highs through the clipping stages?

I used to have a Vox Distortion Booster (the reissue) that did just that. In fact it was so middy-violinny that I found it useless for anything else and sold it; but if that tone is what you're after it should fill the bill. Unfortunately, I have not seen a schematic for it and did not trace it when I had it, but it was an IC-based circuit--maybe similar to an opamp BMP?

[alex frias]

If you just want less "sizzle" or "zingness" the Mr Hammer's reply makes lots of sense, so I find it a good path to follow, filtering the highest part of the harmonics out from the first to the last transistor block.
It can help a lot, and as you are doing it in several stages you may apply small cuts, nothing radical, eventhough I dont know if it will affect the way its dynamic response to the guitar articulation...

[SonicVI]

Try some different types of diodes in the clipping stages or even removing them completely.

[Ben N]

I should add to my prior post that if you are tightening up on the caps, follow the wise suggestion Mark has posted many times and don't do it wholesale: instead, replace the first .1 with a .01, then try it. If there is still too much bass, then move on to the second one, and so on. Same with the ceramics--try your changes piecemeal, see if they have an effect and if you like them before moving on. I think the same thing ought to apply to changing or removing clipping diodes, as well. This is where a clipping board, with either a DIP-switch or a rotary to select between different types and combinations, would be really helpful.

Nobody has really addressed transistors here. The gain range among trannies used in BMPs is huge (as noted in many other threads). If you have hfes of 400+, maybe try something a little tamer, maybe with sockets.

Eliminating the scoop in the tone stack is a no-brainer, though, IMHO.

BTW, if your inspiration is the Gilmour tone, remember that he usually used the BMP in conjunction with some kind of tone-shaping boost or eq, such as a Colorsound Overdriver or GE-7, dialed, IIANM, to a "frown." Not to say that you can't get there internally, just sayin'. I haven't tried it, but I guess something as simple as Gus's Overdrive (1 tranny) after the BMP would help get you there if you tune the emitter-bypass and output caps to taste.

[Mark Hammer]

Since it is the sustain that is required, but a different tone requested, keep the diodes in both stages and swap out the existing tone control for a 2-pole variable lowpass to clean up the harshness and provide a more sine-like tone.

The existing tone control - everything from the collector of the 3rd transistor up to the .1uf cap at the base of the 4th transistor - pans between a fixed 1-pole highpass and lowpass filter.  Use of a steeper lowpass filter, and especially a variable one, would let you zero in on the sweet spot with respect to nailing a smooth sustaining tone. 

So, get thineself a dual-ganged 10k pot from somewhere, a pair of 1k fixed resistors, and a pair of .022uf caps.  The dual-ganged pot is wired as a pair of variable resistances (two lugs only) in series, with a 1k fixed resistor leading up to the first pot half, and another between the first and second pot halves.  A cap goes from the pot "output" to ground for each half.  The output goes directly to the existing 0.1uf cap on the gain recovery stage.  Like so:

- 1k - 10k pot - 1k - 10k pot - 0.1uf cap
                    c                   c
                    a                   a
                    p                   p

The resulting control will roll off highs at a corner frequency adjustable from roughly 7.2khz down to 660hz.  It will only roll off highs, so there is no traditional midscoop or option for a nasal sound thing.  But, this seems to be what you want, so try it out.  Note that it is only 12db/oct, and not any sort of "brick wall", which means that some audible fizz will leak out at any setting, albeit at much lower levels than the traditional control experiences.

[Krinor]

Thanks for all your valuable input! Seems like I'm in for an interesting weekend  I haven't done much experimenting on the Big Muff before (I've only built one "stock" Triangle so far), so all your information is much appreciated.

A pure sustain pedal would be nice, but that is not the scope entirely. I'll live with some fizzle, I just want a bit less of it as the Big Muff tend to be quite a mouth full...

[Mark Hammer]

The double clipping that the BMP provides is what assures the long sustain.  Take the buzz and fizz out and you'll have what you want.

[Krinor]

Thanks Mark. Can't be put simpler.

[bumblebee]

increasing the resistor to ground coming off the sustain pot to 10-15k will result in a less fuzzy bmp but the downfall is you will loose some sustain.

[Mark Hammer]

Thanks Mark. Can't be put simpler.

Good.  Note that the suggested control rolls off more treble (well, moves the rolloff point lower) as the pot resistance is increased.  So, to have the control conform to the more-treble-going-clockwise standard, you will want to use the two lugs on the right side (assuming the pot shaft is facing you and the lugs are facing downwards).

[bassmasta17]

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=72209.0

TONS OF  MUSTAINE!!!!
i ment sustain 

[rnfr]

you could also increase to caps that go from collector to base in the clipping stages.

[Krinor]

Well I just did an experiment and got somewhere near to the tone I am after. Taking a Gilmouresque aproach I lined up some effects like this (after my SG with a P90 in the neck): Valvecaster [gain 50%, tone 100%, Level 100%] - 2006 Big Muff [Level 50%, Tone 40%, Sustain 60%] and ran this through a Boss GE-7 Eq set up  as a "frown" (thanks Ben N) with a little boost around 400-600 Hz, a tiny boost around 1.6 - 3.2 Khz and the treble rolled off quite a bit at 6.4kHz.

The task now is to put all this into the footprint of one Muff. But with all your suggestions above it seems like I'll be having a good time trying. ;-)