HELP ME NAME MY PEDALS!! woo hoo!

[Paul Marossy]

There are a lot of non-circuit related details that you're not considering if you are trying to pursue this as viable business.  You wanna build custom pedals... be prepared to stress out, fronts tons of money, and work extremely hard.  Hire a CPA, know a good lawer, have a 5 year business plan, etc. etc. etc.  If you haven't thought the entire process out from sourcing supplies to good book keeping... well, let's just say there will be some costly mistakes.

Yep, spoken by one who truly knows all about this. 

[studiostud]

Thanks for all the advice.  I do see that I have a lot more research to do.  I'm not sure if I really intend to turn this into a full time business.  I think it's more of a hobby that may see some financial gain somewhere down the line if I sell off a pedal or two.  I see people selling pedals on this forum all the time so I didn't think this logic was too far from ethical.  But maybe I'm mistaken... 

Let me run this concern past you guys... say I do have a unique design for a pedal build and I want to take it to say Boss or Ibanez to see if they would be interested in buying and producing it.  What would keep me protected from them seeing the product, saying they aren't interested, and then going and building it themselves...?

[Unbeliever]

Let me run this concern past you guys... say I do have a unique design for a pedal build and I want to take it to say Boss or Ibanez to see if they would be interested in buying and producing it.

Boss and Ibanez don't really do 'unique', and they have staff engineers on hand to do their designing for them. Sorry, but I think you're dreaming here. You'd be better off approaching a smaller concern, i.e. not a 'big' name, and seeing if they'd be involved in getting the design to production and splitting the profits.

What would keep me protected from them seeing the product, saying they aren't interested, and then going and building it themselves...?

A water-tight NDA, and the $100k+ in your pocket you have to hire a lawyer to challenge them if they went ahead anyway. I'm guessing you don't have this kind of money, so in other words - nothing.

[puretube]

Been there, done that, made it...

got the T-shirt...

(took me ~27 years...)



btw.: Hi, Mike B.!
(yep, I`ve read your kind words on "an other forum"... tnx!)

[Ice-9]

I've put together some multi-effect pedals and I am interested in pursuing getting design patents.  The snag in doing that is that many of the pedals have the actual names written on them (ie: big muff, small clone, etc) and I don't want to run into copyright infringement issues with the respective companies.  I would just figure out names myself, but I'm not the most creative person in the world and most of the names I come up with sound kinda cheese ball. 

So here is a project for all of you !!!  Help me re-name the pedals!

Distortions:
Big Muff
Tube Screamer
Fuzz Face
Rat

Effects -
Small Clone
Small Stone
Orange Squeezer
Red Ranger
Green Ringer
Micro Amp
Sans Amp

It seems to me that you want to protect yourself from someone doing to you what you want to do to the other pedal designers. (ie you take a "big muff" copy it , change the name and expect to patent it). Its true that the schematics of circuits don't come under patents as such but what i think your suggesting to do is rather cheecky, or have i just got the wrong end of the stick here.

Do you actually mean you have designed your own circuits and want some catchy names like "big muff"  " green ringer" etc.

I don't mean to offend here, it's just the way i read the post suggests you want to use others work and call it your own.

[Ronsonic]

Thanks for all the advice.  I do see that I have a lot more research to do.  I'm not sure if I really intend to turn this into a full time business.  I think it's more of a hobby that may see some financial gain somewhere down the line if I sell off a pedal or two.  I see people selling pedals on this forum all the time so I didn't think this logic was too far from ethical.  But maybe I'm mistaken... 

Let me run this concern past you guys... say I do have a unique design for a pedal build and I want to take it to say Boss or Ibanez to see if they would be interested in buying and producing it.  What would keep me protected from them seeing the product, saying they aren't interested, and then going and building it themselves...?

There's nothing unethical about building or selling pedals. Even here   If you've got something, start building. Design patents are an option, Fender patented and made stick a few really interesting concepts like the sloped face guitar amp control panel and the offset waist on a guitar body. The big deal was trademarking the headstock. That stuck and never expires. But mostly there's nothing for you to protect. If some company with a big B in its name starts knocking them out for $29 you're hosed until you've got enough lawyers to stop them, patents be damned. But mostly you don't have anything to steal.

As for dealing with the majors, they probably won't talk to you or want to look at your work. That's how they protect themselves.

I say if you've got something build it and sell it. If the concept depends on re-badged and re-boxed clones of existing products you haven't got anything worth stealing. Or re-stealing. If it is a new enclosure style or construction method you're probably pretty safe already. Not unless you've got something that is extremely inexpensive to manufacture and just wonderful to use and look upon. Even then companies wouldn't want to muddle their brand by looking like you.

Go look up design patents and see how they're drawn and the sort of things they cover. See if what you've got in mind fits.

Mostly, the ideas are the easy part and everyone is too much in love with their own to steal others. It's the dog work of design and production and the rest that cannot be stolen that makes a difference.

Just my opinion. Not to diminish what you're doing, but there's a lot of monkeys out here pounding out their own designs and one more isn't likely to rock anyone's world. Unless you've got that telepathy pedal control harness that controls and adjusts pedals by thinking about them.

[frank_p]

This topic makes me think of this Quebec's folk song.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=674lMx6iqi0&feature=related

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9lix_Leclerc

----------------------------------

The neighbor laughed of us
Because we had twelve children,
Changed its tune
Since he had the same.

Wait for me lil-guy.
You'll fall if I'm not there.
The pleasures of one,
It 's seeing another break his neck.

When the boss tells you
You 're clever and nice,
Be sure you 're the booby
Who makes his boat.

Wait for me lil-guy.
You'll fall if I'm not there.
The pleasures of one,
It 's seeing another break his neck.

He is young, he is pretty,
He is rich, he is polite,
But one thing is bothering him:
It was his valet that was the genius.

Wait for me lil-guy.
You'll fall if I'm not there.
The pleasures of one,
It 's seeing another break his neck.

Money is at the bottom of the scale
And talent from above,
That is why nobody is on top.
However, the view is better.

Wait for me lil-guy.
You'll fall if I'm not there.
The pleasures of one,
It 's seeing another break his neck.

Because I had no coat
I took the skin of my dog.
You see that there is no more bastard
Than me who sings the chorus.

Wait for me lil-guy.
You'll fall if I'm not there.
The pleasures of one,
It 's seeing another break his neck.

When I am told: "Go to right"
It's left that I am aiming.
You who in hell are rejected,
We may see each other in heaven.

Wait for me lil-guy.
You'll fall if I'm not there.
The pleasures of one,
It 's seeing another break his neck.

On the eve of elections
He called you his son.
The day after, of course,
Had had forgotten your name.

Wait for me lil-guy.
You'll fall if I'm not there.
The pleasures of one,
It 's seeing another break his neck.

When sir the priest says
That the parish is full of wicked,
It is not because of the sins:
Is that tithes are not paid.

--------------------------------

Go for it if you feel brave but, be aware of how guitar players (and effects builders) tend to think. 

F.H.P.

[Electric_Death]

Distortions:
Big Muff - Tiny Merkin(which as we all know is a pubic hair wig worn by English prostitutes during the 1600's)
Tube Screamer - Tube Scolder(as we all know tubes are delicate and screaming at them creates a hostile environment)
Fuzz Face - Clean Shave..for obvious reasons
Rat - The Pussy(because pussies eat rats and we all love pussies)

Effects -
Small Clone - Runty Twin
Small Stone - Tiny Boulder
Orange Squeezer - Apple Sauce
Red Ranger - Blue Tanto
Green Ringer - Yellow Buzzer
Micro Amp - Ginourmous Tone
Sans Amp - Pma Snas

[studiostud]

It seems to me that you want to protect yourself from someone doing to you what you want to do to the other pedal designers. (ie you take a "big muff" copy it , change the name and expect to patent it). Its true that the schematics of circuits don't come under patents as such but what i think your suggesting to do is rather cheecky, or have i just got the wrong end of the stick here.

I know that's what it looks like and, frankly, that's why I started this topic to ask you guys.  Because I don't want that to be the case.  I am all about giving credit where credit is due.  What I have is sort of a multiple effects in a single enclosure sort of thing.  The enclosure design, at least to my knowledge, is unique.  As far as the circuits inside, a few are mine and a few are etched from layouts at tonepad and generalguitargadgets.  The wiring is also, to my knowledge, unique as I have utilized some components that I haven't really seen used before for this application. 

I guess what it comes down to is this... considering I don't have $100K stuffed between my bed mattresses, is all the legal protection stuff something I need to concern myself with, or is it not worth the hassle at this point and I should just keep rollin?

[Ronsonic]

The PCB artwork is between you and TP and GGG. As I understand they are both open to making arrangements for commercial use of their designs for a reasonable fee.

As for the rest, just build and sell. The only things getting cloned are either very successful products already or published designs.

Do you really think some major manufacturer is going to say "hey, this guy has a nifty pedal box, buy one send it down to engineering, invest a few thousand dollars in design and many more thousands in tooling to copy it." Really? I'm sure your stuff is good, but....

Build it. Even if you patent everything, copyright everything, trademark whatever you can, if someone wants to steal it they will succeed until you muster the legal power to stop them. On the other hand, you'll be in exactly the same situation. And really it is a silly fear. Worry about succeeding before worrying that someone will steal your success.