My heads spinning.

Started by makaze808, June 02, 2009, 06:31:25 AM

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makaze808

Hi, please don't pont me to the search engine, I'm totally at a an oversatuarated point where I can't take decisions anymore. Help appreciated.

I want to build these pedal, I don't want to finish them then realise I should have modded, etc.

1) Dynacomp  best pcb please with mod's (if needed)

2) Big Muff, I would rather have a tone shaper feature rather than using further eq units etc, best pcb pleae.

Thanks.


cpm

Quote from: makaze808 on June 02, 2009, 06:31:25 AMI don't want to finish them then realise I should have modded, etc.

breadboard them and try for yourself if you like it, or modify to your taste.

going straight to a ready pcb spoils all the fun.

R.G.

This is probably a good place to insert an heretical view.

Why, *exactly* do you even think it will need mods?   

There is a recognized dysfunctional condition among some of the participants here, but it's even more common among effects users in general. We refer to it as Blind Urge to Mod Syndrome, or BUMS. People with BUMS are convinced, not least by the folks that sell mods, that no effect is worth much unless it's been modded, or that something that has been modded is better somehow.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great deal for the mod-sellers when folks will pay you $50 for swapping out two resistors in a pedal. But there is no objective evidence that the pedal then really does sound better. In fact, it is possible that most of the "improvement" in sound is by placebo effect unless you have a clear idea ahead of time what sound you want and how you'd like to hear the pedal changed.
R.G.

In response to the questions in the forum - PCB Layout for Musical Effects is available from The Book Patch. Search "PCB Layout" and it ought to appear.

frequencycentral

Quote from: R.G. on June 02, 2009, 12:17:45 PM
Blind Urge to Mod Syndrome, or BUMS

I suffer from BUDIY, or Blind Urge to DIY. I always have to have a build on the go, or planning a build, or breadboarding a design to build, or planning to breadboard a design to build. People with BUMS don't know how well off they are. Spare a thought for us guys with BUDIY.
http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/

Questo è il fiore del partigiano morto per la libertà!

Mark Hammer

It's a bit like saying "Dye your hair, get this tattoo here, and wear this style of clothing,....and then maybe I'll go out with you". :icon_rolleyes:

Always useful to ask onself these two questions:

"What is it that so many tens of thousands of users find so appealing about this pedal in its stock form that I think I should have one?"

and then, after you've gotten to appreciate it, ask yourself:

"Now that I have lived with this pedal for a while and gotten to know its true inner beauty, what would help to unlock the additional hidden potential that I know is in there?"

and THAT'S when you mod a pedal.

Sometimes it is possible to take a basic pedal and make it be something else that you find useful.  A good example is taking a phase shifter and transforming it into a Uni-Vibe sound-alike by changing a few capacitor values.  But most pedals want to be something specific, and whatever overhauls one has planned may simply not be worth the effort when you consider how easy and cheap it can be to simply build the thing you need or want it to be.  And companies like Danelectro make it so cheap to simply buy a pedal too.

Finally, some PCB layouts assume mods, but many do not, and attempts to mod the circuit result in problems.  There is also something to be said for not having so many controls and switches that it feels like an airplane %^&*pit.

But enough scolding!  Build.....and enjoy!! :icon_biggrin:

Heemis

BUMS can be quite debilitating, often turning perfectly good pedals into freakish shadows of their former selves.  I say this as a former sufferer.

As cpm said, breadboarding is a great method to figure out what YOU want from a circuit.  Especially in your case makaze, you should really think about trying to build these circuits on a breadboard first, and then using your ears as a judge as to how you want the pedal to sound.  If you simply build the pedal off a pcb that is already modded, how do you know you'll prefer it to the stock pedal, or to a different variation or mod?

In my humble opinion, most of the fun to be had in building my own pedals is tweaking the circuit on the breadboard to fit my personal tastes.  If you haven't tried this makaze, now is a great time to start!  There's loads of info to be had on how to breadboard and tweak circuits before committing to what ever "mojo mod" is in vogue at the moment.

Most importantly... if it sounds good to you, then it sounds good.

MikeH

For the dynacomp, there is a great article at http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/ that gives some mods that are very useful, IMO.  Particularily the "recovery mod".  It's really the only one that I feel is actually worth doing.  I used the tonepad layout, which worked great.  "Best" is a subjective term.

I like the BMP triangle stock.
"Sounds like a Fab Metal to me." -DougH

MikeH

#7
Oh actually that article is on the ross compressor, similar to the dyna, which I (and many others) prefer, but the mods should work the same.

I agree with the above posters regarding BUMS, but I think that the mod I mentioned above for the ross/dyna is incredibly useful, and I haven't heard a single person say they thought it was useless.

edit: I realized I put 'recovery' in quotes up there.  It actually is a recovery mod.  I meant to put "Attack" in quotes, because that's what it's often referred to, but it isn't actually adjusting the attack.
"Sounds like a Fab Metal to me." -DougH

donald stringer

 To borrow some thoughts  from "Dan Akroyd" [in one of my fav. skits]  what your going throw is something dangerously close to that dreaded guitarist affliction "gear acquisition syndrome" the never ending search for the perfect tone. Remember your a living organism on this planet ..... put on some Allman Bros. if you have any preforably  live at  Fillmore east  drink an ice cold bud in a bottle and build a stock germanium fuzz face.
troublerat

Toney

 I understand very well where you are coming from mate.
I felt the same way when i first found this place.

Both the circuits you have mentioned are absolute stalwarts.
I think you will find all you need at General guitar Gadgets or Tonepad.
They both have all the info and most proven/worthy mods.
The circuits will be the same and both boards work perfectly.

BAARON

Big Muff Pi:  Get the www.GeneralGuitarGadgets.com kit, as it is very nice, affordable, and has all the parts you need to build about 7 different versions of the pedal, so you don't have to go out and buy more parts.

Build the Dynacomp second, because you'll want the practice from the BMP kit, and then you'll have a better idea what kind of parts you'll need to order, because there isn't a straight up boring basic Dyna kit that I know of.  (Just the goofy 5-knob version from Build Your Own Clone.)

Dynacomp: Get the www.Tonepad.com PCB, then source your parts from www.SmallBearElec.com (because it's easier to find parts there than on a megasite like Mouser if you're a beginner).  The recovery/attack mod on the fuzzcentral site (mentioned earlier) is indeed useful, but I find the pedal is decent to start with.  Alternatively, as a "mod" just build the Ross compressor instead, as they both use the same PCB and it's basically just a smoothed out Dynacomp that doesn't swell as much.

And!  If you want your Ross to be bright like the Dynacomp, just leave out the 220pf cap between the input and ground at the start of the circuit.  That'll clear things back up a Lot, but then you still have the smooth compression of the Ross instead of the pumpy Dynacomp sound.
B. Aaron Ennis
If somebody makes a mistake, help them understand what went wrong.  Show them how to do it right.  Be helpful.  Don't just say "you're wrong, moron."

petemoore

  ton 'o Muff mods.

  Each Stage:
  DC blocking input cap [can be made smaller for less bass]
  Emitter resistor [made smaller increases gain]
  Collector resistor [also influences bias/gain, 10k or 12k [for more] are common.
  Yer little base / collector parts [gain/clipping stages]. Diddle with the diodes for assymetry or clipping threshold lift/drop, the little cap rolls off highs [smaller lets more through]. There's a resistor there for bias also.
  Take two caps, 1/2 valued to the cap you replace with the 2.
  Series them, put a 1'' little wire around the crotch of an outside lead [near cap body. Put the two seriesed caps where you would have put a cap, wrap the jumper wire where the caps meet for 1/2 uf value, unwrap/lift the jumper, and get the higher stock value there.
  Same thing if you want 1 or 2 diodes [2 diodes of = threshold = 2x threshold], maybe try a Ge diode series with an Si, jumper the Ge, interesting to try two stages in series, each assymetric on the other side of the waveform, since each stage inverts...the next diode in same position clips would be assymetric on the other half wave...maybe it'd kind of even out or sound cool.
  Caps is where I'd start though [since it's a double boost-o-clipper fuzz], voicing makes a lot of difference, some report liking smaller staging cap values, Download Duncans Tonestack Calculator, the tone control is certainly worth trying work-overs on if you're inclined to get different responses from it, it lets you see the tone as you adjust...many nice tonestacks, highly recommended.
  Dynacomp is a fine compressor, I can't remember the mod, but it puts a touch more squish or duck in it while still having nice ramping rates, but really nice just as schematic, or is it the Ross...whichever has fewer parts lets a bit more highs through, doesn't reduce hiss as much.
Convention creates following, following creates convention.

makaze808

Thanks for the replies.

Several dodgy builds have knocked my confidence so I guess I'm trying to avoid having to open it up and mod at a later date.

I do see the danger of thinking it's the mods or specific whatever that will give the tones I seek but I am sort of over that. Saying that I am itching to complete a colorsound powerboost as I have been using an 808 / sparklesound for boosting before but it seems the colorsound does colout the muff well.

The dynacomp I want for Gilmourish tones which I'm told it helps with (from Gilmourish) I've only used a cs-2 and maxon which I do two totally different things with. The mod for the dynacomp look great, so I'll start that a-s-a-p.

I have heard a lot of people say a signal through a muff often needs an eq correction ( i presume to lower the bass and increase the mids). The tone pad option seems to offer this so I'll start on that too.

Breadboarding isn't something I understand but it sounds good.

My fave guitar player is Hugh Lloyd Langton from Hawkwind  (he's played during various stages of Hawkwinds career).  Hawkwind dragged Ginger Baker out of retirement and into a year of Hawkwind  and the collaboration produced an LP callerd Levitation where the drumming is unreal and Hugh's guitar (for me) is an absolute orgasm. Hugh only uses a bit of delay and chorus into his tube amps and the rest comes from his fingers.  If your a Hawkwind-phobe then I strangly recommend listening to this album , just ignore the lyrics if they are a bit wierd for you. Hugh can nowadays be caught plqaying small intimate venues in the UK where he sounds as sweet as ever.  A total antidote to my mega chain, quadraphonic shaping rig.

Thanks. Woz.