Anybody built a Boss CE1 Clone ?

[axeman010]

Hi

I am looking for a new project and I came across the BOSS CE1 Chorus Pedal and then found a schematic
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=119

It looks like the MN3002 is available from Smallbear and the rest of the parts should be OK to find or sub.

So has anybody else tried this or am I missing some fundamental stumbling block ?

Axeman.

[axeman010]

I'll take that as a no then !

I am surprised as this seems to be an old classic !

I only found 1 person on the net who was selling clones for about $300.



Axeman.

[RaceDriver205]

I believe www.tonepad.com has a clone project of the Boss CE1.

[axeman010]

Thanks RaceDriver but I think the pedal at Tonepad is the Boss CE2,

So now I'm thinking that must have missed something here. The schematic is out there
http://www.schematicheaven.com/effects/boss_ce1_chorus.pdf

and it would appear that bits are readily available.

So could it be one of  the following :

1.This pedal is not as good as some of the reviews I've read and is not a real classic worth building.
2.There is something out there that does it better ? I like the idea of the combined Chorus and Vibe thang.
3.There's not enough info on the schematic to build the thing. I see that there are no values on the electrolytic caps.
4.The darn thing is just too complex / expensive for worthwhile DIY build.

I am sure there must be a gazillion other reasons too....................

I have a feeling that this thread hasn't floated anybody's boat and will sink quickly
without a trace and without any survivors ! ( – cant believe I just concocted that bunch of metaphors)

Axeman.

[RaceDriver205]

Why, are you just looking to do up a new layout for something?
One would think that the newer the version, the better it is (i.e. CE3 better than CE2).

[Mark Hammer]

A buddy of mine makes a CE-1 clone in a 1590BB that has been very well received ( http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Effects/product/Retro-Sonic/Chorus+Ensemble/10/1 ) and favourably reviewed in GP.  From our many phone conversations, I know he has been working diligently to improve it over the original these past few years, with changes to the input structure that improves signal handling.  It is able to fit in a 1590BB because the power supply and horizontal mounting of components (many of them much bigger in those days) took up a lot of space in the original.  Even with all that space savings it was not until he recently got a power conversion (unipolar in to bipolar out) chip custom made for him that he could free up the space for a third jack and stereo output.  So, if you plan on making one yourself, the smart money says to get an enclosure bigger than a 1590BB.

Personally, I never saw what the big deal was about the CE-1.  I borrowed an original from a friend, and my initial (and lasting) impression was "Oh, it's a chorus."  The original CE-1 design was really intended to provide a sort of ersatz Leslie for keyboards and such.  That's why it has: a) a low input impedance with variable attenuation (to pad down line outputs from keyboards), and b) speed presets that are switch selectable.  Other than those conveniences, I don't think it has anything particularly benchmarkable in terms of its tone and sonic performance.  If you need something that has presets for vibrato and chorus, go for it, but if all you want is just a 2-knob chorus, I think you can be VERY happy with a CE-2 or the Corrral project from Tonepad, especially with the various mods that can be added to that basic design.  Or...you could save yourself some headaches and buy my buddy's pedal.

[joelap]

A lot of people don't give the CE-3 its due.  It's like the proverbial "red headed stepchild" of boss pedals.  I have two.  One is needing two parts and some magic (lifted a trace in a key location while I was still learning), the other is sitting right in front of me, in the process of a mod.  AFAIK, the CE-2 is almost the exact same chorus circuit as the CE-1, maybe with a few minute details but it is essentially the same chorus.  In comes the CE-3, also the SAME CIRCUIT as the CE-2, only with a stereo out option.  But, with that stereo out option, you have the option to send dry to one output and wet to another.  So now you've got a CE-2's chorus with stereo output capabilities OR a knob to turn your chorus into a vibrato by setting the selector switch the other way.  It's not a univibe style vibrato, it doesnt fluctuate the volume as well as pitch, but it does fluctuate the pitch almost like the VB-2.

The CE-3 is a great, great pedal.  While everyone else pays top dollar for their "Long dash, silver screw, black label" mumbo-jumbo, I'll gladly take the lesser known pedal which is the same exact circuit.  Actually, looking at a layout for the CE-2, you can see where the CE-3 came from.  In about 3/4 of the board, the CE-3 and CE-2's layout is almost identical!

[Rafa]

Why you want the CE-1, you can build the CE2 from tonepad , and a vibrato pedal is not diificult. Maybe you can put them in the same box and you get something laike the CE1

[Mark Hammer]

There are a couple of things I did not note about the CE-1.  First, it incorporates noise-reduction circuitry.  If you look here: http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/tom/files/bossCE1.jpg  you will note that Q12 serves a gate-like attenuator function.  When the user stops playing, the FET gets turned on, providing a low-impedance path to ground for the delay signal, effectively cancelling it and eliminating clock noise and hiss from the mixing stage.  Start playing again, and the FET resistance goes high, retaining all the delay signal.  The A/DA flanger uses the same approach.  In contrast, the noise-management approach adopted by the CE-2 and a wide array of choruses it was contemporarywith is a pre-emphasis/de-emphasis strategy, using some treble boosting before the BBD, and complementary treble cut at the mixer stage.  I gather this had some impactonoverall tone, though whether it counts as a "flaw" in the CE-2 is a matter for debate, I suppose.

Don't quote me, but I think the CE-3 uses a lower-voltage MN3207.  Now, while people may talk up the merits of the MN3007 and its supposed greater headroom, that greater headroom ain't so great when the battery starts to slip.  The 3007 really wants to hang onto that 9v. While the maximum headroom from a lower-voltage MN3207 may not be as great as the 3007 (and whether that difference amounts to anything audible is also a matter for debate), it is happy as a pig in s**t with 5v, so if you stick a 5v regulator on board, it will function to the very best of its ability until that meagre 9v battery has dwindled down to around 7v.  In other words, the 3207 would be happy long after the rest of the circuit has proclaimed "Is THAT all the supply voltage you're gonna gimme?  Sod it.  I'm going home."

So, when comparing the CE-1, CE-2, and CE-3, keep in mind that we have the first one AC powered at a higher voltage, the second using a different form of noise management and happier with stable DC power though content with a battery, and the third optimized for battery use.  All things considered, the CE-3 is a lot more like the CE-2 than the CE-2 is like the CE-1, but the CE-3 should deliver the best of what the pedal has to offer...on batteries...for a longer period.  It may well be that what people seem to like about the original blue CE-2 is something that either demands a wallwart, or else only exists for a fleeting period during the lifespan of the battery, a bit like the way some folks covet a Fuzz Face with a dying carbon-zinc.  I'm not saying that is desirable or ideal, merely that "reputations" can sometimes be based on conditions that are not easily reproduced with any regularity or consistency.

[Dirk_Hendrik]

The CE2 and CE1 are definitely different beasts schematicwise. The 2 and 3 are indeed very similar and I never understood why the 3 was so badly recieved. Similar for the Ibanez SC10 wich is a sleeper.

As for a clone... thanks. There's chorussus out there far more interesting to be cloned (the ibanez RC99 (clone done) and the BC9 come to mind). As mark Hammer already mentioned, the Ronsonic is excellent and takes my desire to go that direction away.

[Dirk_Hendrik]

Hi Mark 

[Rafa]

Dont worry you cant get it for $30 Berighner should have cloned it already   

[sevenisthenumber]

I would love to make the ce-1 as well...  its like a mystery or something. Looks like someone would have a layout...?