Questions regarding: "A Remote Indicating Effects Bypass System"

[trixdropd]

So, I've read this article over and over. I'm not interested in making a guitar mounted controller as discussed, but more the core elements.

I am looking to ramp down the relay's click via the schematic here from Geofex.com

The part that starts to get hard to understand is the actual footswitch mechanism to produce the +on/off. R.G. mentions that "To generate the remote switching signals, we need some way to switch the on/off lines between +V and ground. This could be simply a SPDT switch controlling the signal line and an indicator LED". Does this mean that I would tie the + to one side of the spdt and the +on/off to the other? I'm not so sure about the cmos logic just yet as it seems hard to figure out for me thus far.

My second question would be: will 5v dc work for this setup (with 5v relay of course) or would I have to change something in the "declick" section?

Thanks!!

Jeremy

[R.G.]

The part that starts to get hard to understand is the actual footswitch mechanism to produce the +on/off. R.G. mentions that "To generate the remote switching signals, we need some way to switch the on/off lines between +V and ground. This could be simply a SPDT switch controlling the signal line and an indicator LED". Does this mean that I would tie the + to one side of the spdt and the +on/off to the other? I'm not so sure about the cmos logic just yet as it seems hard to figure out for me thus far.

That means you would tie + to one side of the SPDT, ground to the other side, and use the center to connect to the input of the illustrated circuit. The simple ramper needs a low-impedance connection the power supply and to ground when driven high and low respectively.

My second question would be: will 5v dc work for this setup (with 5v relay of course) or would I have to change something in the "declick" section?

I spent some time tuning it for 7-12V operation. 5V Relays need more current in their coils, and the transistor will need to supply that. As a start, reduce all three resistors by half.

[trixdropd]

Thanks R.G..

The simple ramper needs a low-impedance connection the power supply and to ground when driven high and low respectively.

I got it..

5V Relays need more current in their coils, and the transistor will need to supply that. As a start, reduce all three resistors by half.

Does the fact they  run at higher current also contribute more to the clicks? In other words, would running higher voltage relays using less current be quieter?


On a side note, I'd love to see more regarding this relay project you started, and more specifically I'd love some more info that helps me understand using cmos and the like in place
of mechanical switches. I can comprehend A lot of info, but you start with the talk of IC's and stuff you lose me real easily because you talk as If I am already versed on the parts to make the whole.
This is not to say the way you've explained is bad, but for someone of my experience and knowledge I'm close to understanding and need just a bit more guidance.

I do deeply enjoy and appreciate the info you've given on so many different subjects. I can say you've started my electronics hobby and I've built some fairly cool stuff. So thanks!! 

[trixdropd]

Bu-Bump 

[trixdropd]

anymore help would be awesome. i'd love to comprehend the switching logic...

[R.G.]

Does the fact they  run at higher current also contribute more to the clicks? In other words, would running higher voltage relays using less current be quieter?

It's not a huge consideration, even though there are small differences.

On a side note, I'd love to see more regarding this relay project you started, and more specifically I'd love some more info that helps me understand using cmos and the like in place of mechanical switches. I can comprehend A lot of info, but you start with the talk of IC's and stuff you lose me real easily because you talk as If I am already versed on the parts to make the whole. This is not to say the way you've explained is bad, but for someone of my experience and knowledge I'm close to understanding and need just a bit more guidance.

I'll take a swipe at it, but what you really need is an introduction to basic logic. That's more than I can reasonably type in.

The logic used in our computers is binary logic. That is, there are only four states: Logical 1, logical 0, indeterminate, and open or tri-stated. Indeterminate is that no man's land between the logic 1 and logic zero , and to be avoided. Tri-state is open circuit or disconnected so one section does not connect to another. It's not really a logic state, only a way to separate sections so every piece plays well with the others. Logic 1 and logic 0 are the natural units of binary logic. In general, 1 is taken to be a high voltage, 0 a low voltage.

There are three natural binary operators: AND, OR, and NOT.  AND is taken to be the multiplication of two (or more) logic terms. If you have logic signals K and L, and multiply them together, the result is the same as a Logical AND, since the result is 0 if either of the two are 0, and 1 if and only if both are 1. The OR operation is the inclusive or in English: The result of ORing K and L is 1 if either of them is 1 and 0 only if both of them are 0. NOT is self explanatory: any signal NOT'ed is the inverse, 1->0 and 0->1.

There is a standard confusing operation, the exclusive OR, or XOR. This is much like what English means by the word "or": one but not the other. In human words, this is "K or L is true, but not both at the same time" and it's a complex logic function made up of two inverters, two AND gates and two OR gates.

AND, OR and NOT can make up all the other logical functions. But there's a whole lot more. I suggest you get a copy of "CMOS Cookbook" by Don Lancaster. There is a copy available at AMAZON for as little as $18, possibly you could find one cheaper at a used book store.

I used the CMOS stuff for a couple of things; the Schmitt trigger input inverters I used for debouncing momentary mechanical switches. Flip flops are complex logic gates that remember one bit at a time. The momentary switches would set a flipflop on one switch actuation, then reset it on the next. That way it approximated two out of the three functions of a mechanical switch. A mechanical switch has (a) a human operable lever, button or some such, (b) a one-bit memory to remember whether it's on or off and (c ) some kind of electrical contacts; the relay does this part.

[trixdropd]

Does the fact they  run at higher current also contribute more to the clicks? In other words, would running higher voltage relays using less current be quieter?

It's not a huge consideration, even though there are small differences.

On a side note, I'd love to see more regarding this relay project you started, and more specifically I'd love some more info that helps me understand using cmos and the like in place of mechanical switches. I can comprehend A lot of info, but you start with the talk of IC's and stuff you lose me real easily because you talk as If I am already versed on the parts to make the whole. This is not to say the way you've explained is bad, but for someone of my experience and knowledge I'm close to understanding and need just a bit more guidance.

I'll take a swipe at it, but what you really need is an introduction to basic logic. That's more than I can reasonably type in.

The logic used in our computers is binary logic. That is, there are only four states: Logical 1, logical 0, indeterminate, and open or tri-stated. Indeterminate is that no man's land between the logic 1 and logic zero , and to be avoided. Tri-state is open circuit or disconnected so one section does not connect to another. It's not really a logic state, only a way to separate sections so every piece plays well with the others. Logic 1 and logic 0 are the natural units of binary logic. In general, 1 is taken to be a high voltage, 0 a low voltage.

There are three natural binary operators: AND, OR, and NOT.  AND is taken to be the multiplication of two (or more) logic terms. If you have logic signals K and L, and multiply them together, the result is the same as a Logical AND, since the result is 0 if either of the two are 0, and 1 if and only if both are 1. The OR operation is the inclusive or in English: The result of ORing K and L is 1 if either of them is 1 and 0 only if both of them are 0. NOT is self explanatory: any signal NOT'ed is the inverse, 1->0 and 0->1.

There is a standard confusing operation, the exclusive OR, or XOR. This is much like what English means by the word "or": one but not the other. In human words, this is "K or L is true, but not both at the same time" and it's a complex logic function made up of two inverters, two AND gates and two OR gates.

AND, OR and NOT can make up all the other logical functions. But there's a whole lot more. I suggest you get a copy of "CMOS Cookbook" by Don Lancaster. There is a copy available at AMAZON for as little as $18, possibly you could find one cheaper at a used book store.

I used the CMOS stuff for a couple of things; the Schmitt trigger input inverters I used for debouncing momentary mechanical switches. Flip flops are complex logic gates that remember one bit at a time. The momentary switches would set a flipflop on one switch actuation, then reset it on the next. That way it approximated two out of the three functions of a mechanical switch. A mechanical switch has (a) a human operable lever, button or some such, (b) a one-bit memory to remember whether it's on or off and (c ) some kind of electrical contacts; the relay does this part.

Wow... that's heavy "As Marty McFly would say"

I will check out that book and research some logic. that's like speaking alien to me. If I learn logic that could really open the floodgates if what I could create though!!

Thanks for your time R.G.!!!