Direct Recording??

[boogietube]

I just bought a Mesa Boogie Mark V. I want to do some recordings with it, but I want to run it direct. (volume!) Is there any box that I can tap from the speaker outputs to record it direct? Maybe a cab emulator/direct box? I searched but couldn't find one...
Sean

[CynicalMan]

I just bought a Mesa Boogie Mark V. I want to do some recordings with it, but I want to run it direct. (volume!) Is there any box that I can tap from the speaker outputs to record it direct? Maybe a cab emulator/direct box? I searched but couldn't find one...
Sean

If you are running guitar --> amp --> cab sim --> recording setup, you probably won't need a DI box. They are made to have a high input impedance and a low output impedance but, if you're running your guitar into an amp the input impedance is handled by the amp, and if you need an especially low output impedance it would just be easier to add a buffer onto the end of a cab sim.
Here are some cab sims.

http://www.runoffgroove.com/condor.html
http://home3.netcarrier.com/~lxh2/ (there are a bunch of complex cab sims and amp sims here)
http://sites.google.com/site/distorque/home/projects/speaker-sim
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/lxhlsc.gif
http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/schems/msim.jpg
http://www.godiksennet.com/images/sch/DRP-1%20Page-1%20-%20rotated.jpg

Edit: Tapping from a headphone out or maybe an effect send would be better than tapping from a speaker out. I don't know if tapping from speaker out would work. I wouldn't suggest trying it out because the voltages might be too high or you might damage your output stage. Also, you might need to run these cab sims at a higher voltage because they are made for guitar-level signals. I don't know if headphone out or effect send outputs would cause them to clip.

[phuzle]

You can mod your amp pretty easily to add a direct out.  You need to keep the speaker attached at all times or you'll blow your amps output transformer.  But when you tap off the speaker out, while keeping the speaker connected, you can get your direct out.  But then you still have the volume.

As for making a box which simulates the load of a speaker for the output transformer, I'm not sure...

[Ripthorn]

If you search this forum for the Celestion V30 emulator, it calls for a high wattage resistor that maintains the proper load on the OT while allowing you to take the speaker out signal for recording.  It is really quite simple.  In addition, you might want to consider the Aiken load resistor thing (basically strapping a 470R resistor across the primary secondaries just in case you forget to connect a load) just to keep safe.

[Paul Marossy]

You can mod your amp pretty easily to add a direct out.  You need to keep the speaker attached at all times or you'll blow your amps output transformer.  But when you tap off the speaker out, while keeping the speaker connected, you can get your direct out.  But then you still have the volume.

As for making a box which simulates the load of a speaker for the output transformer, I'm not sure...

Yeah, you can do a little box that allows you to not even mod the amp at all. Check out this page I made a while ago: http://www.diyguitarist.com/GuitarAmps/LineOutBox.htm

You might have to experiment a little bit with it to get it just right, but that gives you the basics. See this page for help on calculating resistor values and stuff like that: http://sound.westhost.com/vda.htm

[boogietube]

Thanks, Paul! I was looking for a balanced DI output and a reactive speaker load for silent recording. My amp has a line out to send to power amps etc..
What I've found are these devices which I think may fit the bill:

http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php?mode=prod&id=110
I still have to use a speaker with that one however.

I think these might do the trick but I can't find anyone selling them , and the harmony central reviews about his service are awful:
http://www.amptone.com/kolbeattenuator.htm

This is promising, but I think the load is purely resistive, not reactive:
http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_page_hotplate.html

Here's an article about reactive loads bu some amp guru.. a bit confusing to me with limited knowledge:
http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/dummyload.html

[boogietube]

Oh ya. I think the most important part of this is that I can't find anything DIY!!

[bdevlin]

Are you kidding!!!!  Mark V's don't have a recording out jack??  I thought all the high end Boogies had them.

[BRingoC]

This makes me think back to a time when I worked in a guitar store. A couple of guys came in with their amp, a Mesa Dual Rectifier, set it up on the counter and said they needed some new tubes for the amp.  I said, sure, let me just take a look at what grade of tubes you have (Mesa graded the tubes if I remember correctly).  They spun the amp around to show me the inside and I was SHOCKED, IN HORROR, AGHAST, what was inside where the tubes should be were STUMPS! The tubes had shattered, blown up like someone had thrown a stick of dynamite inside, there were sockets with bits of cracked glass sticking out, I don't even remember if the plates and filaments were left.  Of course I asked, what the heck happened.  They said they were doing some recording with it in their dorm room, had plugged it into their 4-track, straight from the amp out into the recorder.  They said it sounded great for about five minutes, then it just sorta blew up.  I wish I had taken a picture.  So in short, don't do what these guys had done.

[boogietube]

Ya, I don't want my new Mark V to blow up! It simply has a line out to power amps, not a direct recording out.  From what I've learned, there must be a load attached to any direct recording box. The THD Hotplate provides a resistance and you can silently record using the "load" setting. That's great, but I like the idea of the Red Box where you have a cab sim (2x12 or 4x12 ) built in. The Red Box needs a speaker attached to the output. I was thinking that a reactive load might sound better than just a resistor or a dummy load device that is purely resistive.
I was looking at this schematic and I think I might build this and use it in conjunction with the Red Box:
http://www.aikenamps.com/spkrload.html
I wouldn't have to "tap" this circuit for a direct line (the Red Box would do that)
I don't know if there would be a difference in the recorded sound between a purely resistive load and a reactive one in this sceanario, but I'm thinking there may be. I have no basis in fact for that assumption-It just seems to make sense to me.
Any comments?  Ideas?

Sean

[ubersam]

The redbox only needs a speaker at its output if you are running the amp's speaker output through it. if you are going to run the slave output of the amp through the redbox, you wouldn't need to connect speakers to the output of the redbox. you'd still need to have a load connected to the speaker output of the amp,though. as far as reactive loads, there is the weber mass attenuators.

[Paul Marossy]

Thanks, Paul! I was looking for a balanced DI output and a reactive speaker load for silent recording. My amp has a line out to send to power amps etc..
What I've found are these devices which I think may fit the bill:

http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php?mode=prod&id=110
I still have to use a speaker with that one however.

I think these might do the trick but I can't find anyone selling them , and the harmony central reviews about his service are awful:
http://www.amptone.com/kolbeattenuator.htm

This is promising, but I think the load is purely resistive, not reactive:
http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_page_hotplate.html

Here's an article about reactive loads bu some amp guru.. a bit confusing to me with limited knowledge:
http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/dummyload.html

Oh, I see. IMO, on this sort of stuff, you are better off just buying the product. It's cheap insurance. Much cheaper than fixing a tube amp that you may or may not be able to get replacement parts for when it melts down because an error was made somewhere. And if you cost it out do DIY, one of those products is probably not that much more than what you would pay for all the parts sourced most likely from several places and all of the shipping to get them to you. Shipping is very expensive these days.